--On 11/15/2021 1:00 PM John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
That is really good news, Ron -----if 2.5 shoes and drums use the same as 2" inner parts. Not sure how they did that , rubbing surface must be moved back to the same center, ? by slanting the front of drum inward and thus a centered narrower machined drum inner face part--but it makes sense . I passed on several 2.5 drums, could have done it that way arrgh. From that perspective 2" shoes might work fine in 2.5 drums too. Both are on center...(Not doing that.....)
On the rim post I misunderstood. I now think he is saying the inner " tire mount" part of the rim hits the drum outerface or circumference? . That is correct for some 14" drums, with 12 ' brakes for sure, why finding wide F 14" drums that do not hit 12" drum is now a party . Many of my F over the years ,as purchased, had rims 1/2" narrower than they are supposed to be, probably common 57-60 mopar smaller car 14". .......often mixed with a few F "real ones" . ....and why nice work by Tony R on getting 15" on F , with 14" F caps, in his case for large discs. Relates to getting good tires too, very limited if any at all right now, in really good 14. I thought the rim post meant lug face area interfered with or tilted the rim. Sorry if I had understood that wrong.
The pulsing brake (as opposed to off center or tilted rim) is due to exactly what I am saying, if you disturb centering of the drum on hub, you cannot depend on studs to center .It will run out .060 to .1" , but there are other ways, a pilot on hub maybe used in 60, and used by all mopar later, or pins to maintain machine shop set center as I did.
Why would China make 60 dodge brake drums? Maybe, ---? I ordered two --we will see--but really excellent point about all these ebay resellers with Chinese junk saying it fits this and that when it does not. .
Especially temp senders and fuel gage senders. Not even close to right. Save your old stuff.....really.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:52 AM RON WATERS <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
John -
The backing plate and center support are exactly the same for 11 x 2 and 11 x 2 1/2 brakes. Drums are different. Shoes are different. For a 12" conversion, shoes, drums, backing plate, support plate, springs are all different from 11" brakes. Wheel cylinders are the same, IIRC. Again, I would highly recommend going with 12" brakes. 11" brakes are inadequate for stopping our cars. Even a lighter weight car like a Plymouth. Safety: It's kinda important.
Drum and hub came from the factory as one assembly. The separate drums that are now sold on ebay, etc. are Chinese junk. Plus you will have the added fun of vibration every time you brake. The hub/drum was sold as one unit for a reason. Everyone tries to second guess Chrysler engineering. Bad idea.
Ron
On 11/15/2021 10:49 AM John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
hi Ron , agree — but car has completely new 2� brakes backing plates , shoes, cylinders etc . If you increase shoe width , that 1/2 “ added width on each side adds in where ? given a fixed axle flange ? says hubs or axles maybe housing changes length ( I doubt that)—- to allow narrower shoes / drums = the tires must move in or the rim offset was changed? I remember some 57-59 Dodges and plymouths looked weird with narrow tires , maybe 6 cyl used narrower tires and rims? looked tucked under the car to me. who knows.
Backing plates must be different for different shoe width ? I don’t know any of this ?While not questioning posted experience on rims not sitting right , that surface is flat (?) but there are issues with lug nut cone shapes bottoming out and Ford 41/2� pattern parts ending up on our cars , especially in the context of changing to all R studs . Leave it all stock is the best answer in 2021 if you can find the stuff Don’t mix stuff up .
That said, i put 12 “ F brakes under another 57 Dodge , but looking back I used F axle, (and springs — which are longer , had to relocate rear hangers) .Welcome to a world of crazy minor variations (!) in these cars for no good reason ( engineer hat on ) just like the 3 completely different lines and sizes of early hemi, most of which overlap in cu in ) .
I debated putting 12 “ on this car , would have to do fronts then , and I have them .But decided to keep stock . All this is good info .Do parts books on 60 up show drum and hub as separate parts ( quite aside from ? huge effort to separate — as compared to “one piece “ 57-59 parts ) ? Important to know — if one day there are no one piece hub and drum replacements on pre 62 cars ? May be an answer here .. ?
Fronts now have later mopar drums (?) , unknown year , we located centers on lathe , pinned location , to hub — other than locating right , they will be squeezed by lug nuts just like later removable mopar drums . That squeeze is what carries the drum brake torque not the pins . I am ok with that , so far so good .
Big view , a brake kit from AAJ may end up cheaper $ than all this , but this is a non power brake car . Disc on manual brakes are a little dicey on longer pedal travel and high force . Can work but stock brakes working right is a better feel.
Sent from my iPhone not by choiceRon,Your cars may have already had larger rims that worked with 12x2-1/2, so you didn't see the problem.I had a 61 Newport with 'smaller' brakes and switched the wheels/tires from it onto my wife's 62 NYer rear end. Upon driving for the first time, the brakes pulsed severely and were not usable. The 'smaller' rims distorted the rear drums when I tightened them onto the axle. Luckily no permanent damage was done as I immediately took them off and switched them back and the problem went away.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 9:28 AM RON WATERS <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
John, John and others -
The same rims that fit 11 x 2 will fit 11 x 2 1/2 and 12 x 2 1/2. Both my 58 Plymouth and 59 Dodge started with 11" drums and are now sporting 12" drums. 12" drums were also used on Plymouth and Dodge police cars.
Ron
On 11/15/2021 7:07 AM John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Before 'upgrading' drums, either in width or diameter, make sure you have appropriate wheels/rims that are compatible. Rims designed to fit properly on 11x2 rims won't fit properly over 12x2-1/2 drums. There may even be issues just with different widths.
On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 7:53 PM Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
One piece hub and drum for both front and rear. Just researched in the 60
parts book. Interesting to note that the drums were different depending on
whether the car was built in Detroit or not. This is true of 11" brakes, but
not 12", which are the same no matter where the car was built.
John, not sure what you are working on, but I would go with the 11 x 2 1/2,
as there is more surface area. 11 x 2s are inadequate. Or better yet, put 12
x 2 1/2 brakes all around and experience superior braking, assuming you are
working on a junior model which was born with 11" brakes.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of John
Grady
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:17 PM
To: chrysler 300 club
Subject: {Chrysler 300} Rear brake drums / hubs ? changed in 60 ?
As we know these drums were factory made by Chrysler in one piece riveted
with hub (?) and possibly machined that way 57-59 and probably back to 30's
. . So perfect centering .
As I still have no success on finding 11 x2 Dodge rears ,( 2.5 are out
there ) - and someone had very poorly modified mine by removing original
drum , adding another loose drum ( later mopar ,? and new studs ) They used
the stud holes to locate , totally inadequate , - as done.. Runs out .060
+ and cut .100 over ( dumb..)! But all that driven by lack of availability ?
So in looking , there are new 60-61 11 x 2 drums around for 60-61 Dodge .
They are loose without taper hub .But as (I think !) I recall 60 dodge used
tapered axles like our 300 do up till 62 . And these new 60 drums fit on
front , too (!) So are 60 mopar drums serviced separately from the hub (
why different drums listed in 60-61 vs 59 back? ) Dodge 11x2 59 back with
hub drums are impossible to get , we may face this on our 12" drums very
soon . Still available ( Kantor last year ) but waning supply and very large
$ .
Does anyone know about this ? The 60 dodge drum has a defined toleranced
pilot hole , I assume for centering , but the 58 hub I have does not have
that machining , 1960 must - although I think I can add that ? Maybe 60
hubs all have it , Or possibly same guy cut the hub face to align new drum
he used in and out?
A drum revision in 60 ? Also in the 60 dodge front and back drums
interchange - a very rational reason to allow hub and drum to separate ??
although the 60 hub has rivet holes too
Obviously all probably applicable to 300 too , just larger drum ... ??
comments ?
Thank you ,
John
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