i apologize for adding confusion here , Don is right . —— the shoes I had unboxed have two sets of loops on them , while those in my car have one loop . on page 6 of the Chrysler publication about the “new 3 platform brakes” , it has a picture of the old shoes called “single loop “ ( 57-58) , but it has TWO loops . That is exactly what I had as “ new relined shoe” for 57-58 and would have been correct . Why they call a shoe with two loops a single loop shoe is left to the ages , but can’t help saying learn descriptive english before you write a service book. . So someone apparently made a 57-58 service shoe with one loop , that was in my car and in tw o different designs . .. cause of all this. “Single loop shoes” can have one or two loops , apparently . the real three loop three platform shoes have three pairs of smaller V’s or loops and the the side faces of those loops are even with the lining edge . ( pix are on same page ) . however they also have a 4 th large loop on them (the one they do not count ! ) . And a new spring hooks a loop now , post 58 , not a small hole in shoe web A ready ID for any loose shoes sitting around is the large 1/2 hole is gone on mopar manufactured post 58 shoes .
So multiple flavors of unmarked 57-58 shoes with differing loop counts totally confused us. None were 3 platform shoes. the car went back together with real 57-58 shoes with one loop , ( aftermarket?) so we are ok . Maybe this little trip helps someone else . That Mopar publication was elsewhere , wish I had it day one , and i must mark any parts I get along the way . Big thank you to Don V , right as usual , His comment on cleaning and blowing out existing lines thoroughly are gospel now. Crud will move into new clean parts with the bleeding flows... John Sent from my iPhone not by choice thanks Don , agree totally —-and that was all done apparently with the exception of blowing out brake lines with brake kleen . that is a critical step it turns out — on old cars left sitting a lot . i agree on smooth bore finish , but many mechanics seem to just hone and go .. leaves questions .. do you know why late shoes do not interchange ? we had all 4 of them side by side — while not going over with micrometer it seems the added V’s for 3 platform are only change that is obvious , and for sure do not touch anything in the old setup . we put them in to look , but wary . why i asked —-not closed up . ? maybe later replacement suppliers tried to combine into one universal shoe or something . i readily admit I do not know . and do not know history of “ new” shoes. but curious as to the why? i have old notes from Chrysler on 3 platform at work, will go and look tomorrow. thanks to all who consider this stuff , john Sent from my iPhone not by choice
The short answers.
Late shoes do NOT interchange with early pre 59 shoes.
Lines should be flushed with brake clean and blown out. Brake fluid would
be a big waste and unnecessary expense.
Wheel cylinders should be as smooth as possible. I wrap a piece of scotch
brite pad around the hone and shine it up with that. I use PB Blaster for hone
lube.
Don’t piece meal a brake job. Change all the wheel cylinders, brake hoses,
shoes, and master. Inspect and cleanout all lines.
Wheel cylinders from Bernbaum’s are correct, those from Rock Auto are not.
Front shoe springs attach to the web on the shoe, and are a different style
than the rears (one long leg). The rears attach to the outer retainer on the
shoe.
Send me a picture of what you are working with.
Don
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:57 PM
Subject: [Chrysler300] brake cylinders , general
past few days have been after D front wheel cylinders / brakes . Today, we
solicit any comments / knowledge , or share same !
So, after a small leak
with silicone fluid ,the left front of car grabbed badly . i do not think you
can really get any brake fluid out of linings no matter what you try , with
silicone being probably 20x worse . so new shoes have to go in . however the two
old shoes were made differently from each other , although both had the only one
“ set” of V ‘s as is correct in early 58 ,57 . = mix of brands? Single pair of V
‘s in each shoe are different heights . more on this in a moment .
although
we could find no obvious reason for small leak by piston , some obvious
significant crud was piled in top cylinder right behind the inward ( new) piston
travel , despite being thoroughly cleaned ( stuff at assembly was spotless)and
new piston put in recently with almost no miles . This Crud may have gotten
under piston lip ? so bleeding brakes may move significant long term crud on our
now old cars from lines to wheel cylinder ! heads up .
That says bleed all
lines aggressively into a cup before attaching new wheel cylinders? did not know
— or do that ...
so , Ed , who has worked with me for many years , got a new
piston , and honed brake cylinder “ just in case a scratch “ I get this , but
question came up in my mind what is spec of final wall finish ? common KD brake
hone. .. on line , there are talks of “cross hatch “ ( =mouth wag , taken from
engine cylinder?) . .. to me as engineer for a seal you want a mirror finish ?
like on construction equipment rod, not a hone finish ? although maybe hone is
ok . ( not sure about that .. would expect seepage due to microscopic rough
surface ?) .
so out of caution and indecision decided to just replace
cylinder , but this question remains ?? and many “rebuild job” honed cylinders
do seep a bit . anyone know factually about finish ?
another seep is another
set of shoes ... and all this work . and breaking in shoes.
says to me very
light pass with hone or just leave it alone if clean after bench cleanup .
now , —“new “ shoes seemed to have both sets of V,s .
confused me as
that is for “three platform brakes (?)” , and the third point they count is
apparently the two plates in the middle of shoe web that are part of cam
adjuster etc —-with the 4 large bolts . no info on new shoes — riveted rebuild
no box. on shelf for years. probably for an F .
Trying these, on D , the
extra V’s do not hit anything , ( no matching platform on backing plate ) so
maybe later shoes ( 59 up) fit the earlier cars , or some would. After careful
examination , I can see no issues .
so ? some questions:
1) of correct
wheel cylinder finish , ? 2) later shoe retro retrofit ,? 3) bleeding st high
flow may flush harmful junk into upper wheel cylinder , —- and not out the drain
.. never thought of that .
there are solvents for silicone oil , Dow ,
but could not find retail sale of it .Think it is DS 2025 .. another subject .
all FYI !
john grady
Sent from my iPhone not by choice
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Posted by: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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