RE: [Chrysler300] New Electronic Distributor - Without Points - 413

["'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Agree with Marshall, especially about vacuum canister ;  I was unable to find a replacement advance can  for the iron distributor (a J) , or F , C or D for that matter, in past few  weeks--not available.  I believe all the hi performance 300's used that basic dual point iron body distributor unit ( A thing of beauty..has a ball bearing - centered vacuum advance , not a pin pivot on one side, (gap varies then) like later,  cheap single point ones ,-- oiler too** --also some originals cannot be exchanged,  due to tach drive in same body  ) --So recently I purchased two  vacuum cans used on later distributors (72-78 440) that are still available from Standard . However arm is all wrong , angles and length, but advance and can mount is about the same. I modified the two of them --seemed to work out , one on a pivot type single point 413 distributor, one on a J distributor.... and documented it in pictures , will send on to Bob later on if it proves out. NOS vacuum can that was made in 60's is also a  bad idea as old rubber is hard in those,  too; vacuum advance is not super critical as long as not too much of it, essentially , it raises gas mileage. A lot. There are some significant issues around ported vacuum advance or not, with a different distributor (watch out if swapping distributors!!)---- I found in the 57 WCFB in question,  it is using manifold vacuum, kind of strange, (still do not understand how that can work at idle_--idle timing will jump when you connect vacuum--but does not do that on later cars ) ; assume all pre 57 also used manifold vacuum , and maybe some later. (does carb have a rectangular transition slot? If not , it is manifold vacuum to distributor--most newer distributors are however designed for transition slot ) Not sure if WCFB was ever available,  or used on Mopar with ported vacuum (at all?) or if AFB rams are ported vacuum? Anybody know? 

I also learned to is possible to reduce vacuum advance arbitrarily on these, by folding a sheet metal spacer secured with epoxy so the arm cannot enter can as much.... one guy did it with a paper clip. 

Just a personal opinion, and in no way critical of  Marshall's rationale to go electronic, (no fussiness, does the job) ,  but in a 300 driven modest miles, points are far more reliable than electronics and you get the right advance curve with your original distributor. Not like you are driving it 50 k a year? The spark is also hotter (!) . EE hat on, energy in coil is 1/2 Li sq, I is set by the V you have (? Say 13v) and ohms of coil and ballast resistor , added up. All electronic ignitions lose 1 volt in the switch transistor; so we have (points)  13 V sq, = 169, vs. 12 V sq , 144 (electronic) almost 20% hotter spark energy with points. (why drag guys use 16v) If electronics fail,  you walk. Points fail you fix in 2 minutes. And they give you warning. Last, dual points are admittedly extremely difficult to get "right on" without a dwell meter, as both sets must be perfectly on the point of the cam, when set that way, or they WILL short each other out. It is almost impossible with "bumping starter" inaccuracy  and just "looking at them with feeler gauge" to get that right. Just sayin, fighting that since 62, when I could even still reach way back there. (392) . Difficulties with performance on dual points are almost always it is not set right, "expert set" or not, --or a bad "new" capacitor. Keep the one with copper strap, unless you know it is bad. The 140 mph was done with points......and a dwell meter.

** Twice have used Mopar conversion kit electronic distributor, comes without oiler, once on slant six. It is die cast pot metal. The upper bushing wiped out in 5 k miles (dry from factory) , no way to lubricate it either. Cap Clip mount on one side broke off , flimsy . Whole thing was cheap junk compared to what our cars came with. I drilled a hole between the bushings while rebuilding it so that oil can get in from below. And shot some in. Guys who designed it originally with oiler had a reason. But it works, sort of.
john
-----Original Message-----
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx' mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 11:36 AM
To: mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] New Electronic Distributor - Without Points - 413

 I have no idea if the Ebay sample is of good quality, but my recent experiences with Pertronix units suggest to me that it's an excellent conversion if your distributor is in good condition.  The unit enables you to retain all of the original appearance except that there will be 2 wires from the coil to the distributor instead of only one.
  In the past I've heard of some reliability issues with those for some applications, but I believe that those problems (if they existed) have been appropriately addressed.
  In any case I do recommend that you replace the vacuum advance diaphragm if it is more than 8 years old.  It's not a lot of fun to dig deep enough to do distributor work on most of our 300s.  I converted my '55 12 years ago (also a 12volt electrical conversion) using a MOPAR conventional electronic system that included a distributor from a 318 engine (slightly modified for hemi instal), an added ballast resistor, and the ignition electronic control unit all removed from a 70s vintage Dodge pickup.  It has been trouble-free for me for 30k miles, but because of the simplicity of the Pertronix system that is what I would use if I were doing the conversion today.

---------------mg

Please note: message attached

From: "'Mark Lindahl' mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Chrysler300] New Electronic Distributor - Without Points - 413
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 10:06:32 -0500


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Posted by: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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