Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
I wondered same thing . On ac. From engineering perspective you want a water pump to take lowest power it can , to do the job. Mpg etc . And not cavitate at any rpm. ( low pressure inside pump causes low temp boiling-pump can then stall , cannot pump vapor ) . So maybe fewer fins on ac allow more water in, move more , but take more hp. If not needed , put a lesser pump. More fins is not for sure more flow . Especially at high rpm . Purposely made originally to be very efficient , over a wide rpm range -- may get inefficient at high rpm on purpose , that is ok still enough moves. Otherwise would be a huge flow. Too much outlet pressure . The wide rpm range makes design of it hard .
This with no ac , , then they found ? inadequate at mid or idle rpm on ac? Mpg drops with ac. Anyway . So a pump that takes more hp is ok . Same thinking why are huge windmills 2or 3 blades ? The old water pump disc ones were 20 or more blades --seems no brainer to add more get more . Not true at all . Those 2-3 blade windmills bother me, still . Even though I know factually from involvement with power industry they are the most efficient possible . Same deal ?
Germans built one with 1 blade and a big counterweight . It had adherents. Also says to me an ac pump is better for cooling ..., even a non ac car . Must move more water . Net . At idle and cruise rpm . Has to . Glad you saw the plate too . Some want to dispute that . Not always there ... if not is casting different ? Must be . Different pump? Ac casting ? ( doubt that) More to dig up about all this... all these " my 413 runs hot" complaints cannot be just airware? 440 pumps, by rebuilder ? Plate or not? Swapped mix and match casting ? 55 years ... Sent from my iPhone
John.
Don't think that I have
ever had a vague heads-up before. Think that you may have coined something
here.
But all are good thoughts
here.
So we need to have a lot
of people to look closely at there various 413, 440, 383? water pumps and
record casting #'s and parts # if known.
+ the plate
information. I'm pretty sure that I know the mild steel? plate that you
are talking about. Have noticed it on and off over the years, even back in
the day (I think). Always looked weird in a cast iron part.
Need to check Hollanders
to see what they say. It is amazingly correct for so many things.
Must have had junkyard EXPERTS put them together. Who else could have
known that HUGE amount of information? And be right most of the
time on top of that!!!
* One thing though.
I never figured out why AC pumps have one LESS impeller blade, for lack of a
better word, than non-AC pumps. On the surface this appears
counterintuitive. Any ideas about this?
See you at
Geneva!
A&G
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 7:44
PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Follow up on
cooling issue on my F
Apparently Some had stamped metal plates behind the rotor some do not --
I believe rotor depth and mount casting depth varied . And to allow plate or
not. But all pumps look the same at front . The plate probably was to balance
output side to side or help heater flow? Or HD cooling? Who knows . I do not
know , but it seemed to be 100% factory changes, plus AC or not. Not a parts
supply thing . They ac or not are same depth within a back casting family I
think. Also it will work ok if wrong -- probably until a max stress day , the
temporal sequence or rationale is lost to time. Back in the day you give at
parts store the year , ac or not , heavy cooling etc etc you get right pump .
Today you get most likely a 440 or 383 pump for 413 , like in late 60's 440 up
-- and that may be right for some 413 . It was long ago this happened to me .
Car ran a little hot , figured old radiator , but got hot easy on long hills .
I noticed plate in back , inside casting another motor did not have it. Maybe
we measure depth it sticks out as I said vs part number , or check an early
water pump on E or F Is it close to casting at back when replacing ??
If 1/4 gap? Clearly not right. Water will go around rotor
.
Part number guru might chase down or Hollander ?
Not trying to inject confusion, but if you do not know about this obviously
can drive you crazy . Call it a vague heads up ... Sent from my
iPhone
John, we have heard
this before but is it true?
Is it just SOME
440 pumps? It's possible but not likely SOME are this way.
Different vendors made different pumps? Mid run design changes for
some vendors? Or what?
The Hurst blew a pump
coming home from a meet. It was Labor Day and a parts house just
happened to be doing inventory. They were good enough to sell us a
replacement pump but it was a 440 pump and was all they had on the shelf
that Sunday. We put it in on their parking lot and drove it for
many years thereafter with no overheating problems. Others have also
run 440's for years with no problems.
SO WHAT IS THE
FACTUAL ANSWER TO THIS SITUATION? Considering all of the
brilliance within this Club, there is an answer to this
question.
See you at the meet!
[knock on wood].
A&G
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2017 7:54
AM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Follow up
on cooling issue on my F
See also an earlier thread on wrong pumps. If still hassling you .
They will sell you 440 pumps for 413 sometimes back spacing inside housing
is wrong , they varied . Engine rebuilder might not know. Sometimes a
steel plate in there .wrong pump fits fine. Too complex to get into here ,
but FYI . I am not sure of answer to this , beyond say aftermarket
aluminum pump and matching housing , or measure from bolt flange face to
back of impeller on a known correct 413 pump ( depth into correct
413 housing ) club needs to get into this at some point . Easy to get
wrong = poor flow. Due to gap at back ? Plus ac or not issue. ? = 2 more
pumps .
Maybe someone else knows specifics , years etc
.
Sent from my iPhone
Good Saturday morning 300 ites
Just wanted to thank everyone who provided input on my cooling issue.
New water pump, thermostat, sending unit, flushed radiator 2 times.
dash gauge still reads close to hot. Installed a under dash H20 temp
gauge
Been raining so I have not had the F out to see what the engine reads
when driving. Idling in the barn around 180ish
Bought an infrared meter (great tool)
Have a great weekend and see those going to NY next week
Steve Beard
300 F
Delaware, Ohio
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