RE: [Chrysler300] Transmission cooling line failure inside radiator

["'David Schwandt' finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Nothing hi-tech about the cooler in side the bottom of the Ra.

Basically just a pipe w/2 short legs at a 90* and fittings for the tubing is
all.

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of 'Ron Waters' ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 9:55 PM
To: Chrysler 300 Club, Int'l; Ray Melton
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Transmission cooling line failure inside radiator

 






Ray -

 

1. I think the shop that 'rebuilt' your radiator owes you some money.

 

2. Follow my procedure for cleansing the cooling system. Introducing foreign
chemicals, such as Simple Green, etc., into the engine and cooling system is
a bad idea. Residue from these chemicals may have a disasterous effect on
your engine, radiator, etc. Don't do it.

 

3. I've never taken apart a radiator/tranny cooler. So I can't say if your
visualization is correct or not. You'll know what happened when the radiator
shop opens things up.

 

4. Take the desiccant out of the pan. You don't need it and it may leave
residue. Again, a bad thing.

 

5. Redline WaterWetter - A magic nostrum. Worthless. Here's a review of the
stuff:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/01/redline-waterwetter%C2%AE-review/

 

Ron

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ray Melton <mailto:rfmelton@xxxxxxx>  

To: Ron Waters <mailto:ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>  ; Chrysler 300 Club, Int'l
<mailto:chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  

Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 9:49 PM

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Transmission cooling line failure inside radiator

 

Hi Ron -

Thanks for your thoughts.  I have never seen what's inside my radiator,
especially at the bottom where the transmission oil cooling function occurs.
I pictured a labyrinth of tubing in the bottom "tank" of the radiator, where
the tubing is exposed to the relatively cooler water in the radiator, just
before the coolant is discharged out the bottom.  And I pictured that the
rupture would have occurred in some portion of the tubing, leading to
transmission fluid leakage into the coolant while the transmission is
operating and those lines were pressurized.  Or is my visualization
incorrect?

The radiator had been rebuilt less than one hour operating time before this
event, although I have no idea what they did inside, especially at the
bottom.  They may not have even looked at that part of the radiator!  So,
the radiator is coming out and going to the (supposedly) best place in town,
and I  want to watch just what they are doing every step of the way!  I may
even ask if they can  rebuild it to a 4-core configuration instead of the
stock 3-core version.  And of course, I'll be especially interested in
seeing what goes on in that bottom tank with the transmission cooling lines.


After draining everything from the transmission pan, we put a blow-gun all
over every tranny part accessible with the pan removed, (including valve
body and now-empty torque converter),  and then we even put a big desiccant
bag in the bottom of the pan where the filter used to reside, closed it up
and left it there for two days.  Also blew out the new stainless lines from
the transmission forward to the radiator.

Next plan for cooling system after rebuilt radiator (top, middle and
bottom!) is reinstalled:  we will put some degreaser (Awesome, Simple Green,
Purple Power, etc.) into the radiator water while we begin the transmission
refill process.  Then run it for a couple of hot/cold cycles, then drain out
the transmission fluid.  Rinse and repeat.  Plan to fill and drain the
transmission at least twice to flush out any residual water.  Also plan to
fill and drain the radiator (and entire cooling system as best we can) at
least twice, leaving heater in "ON" position to get everything out of there,
too.  Finally, refill radiator ith conventional 50/50 green antifreeze (plus
Redline WaterWetter) and keep and eye on everything from temperature to
possible pink oily slime on top of radiator water!  Change again if
necessary.

Then, just cross fingers (arms, legs, toes and eyes, too!) and hope the
brief exposure to water (with EvapoRust) did not damage anything inside the
zero-hour rebuilt transmission!

I will keep the membership posted on the progress (success or failure) of
this miserable problem! 

Ray Melton

1957 300C convert

Las Cruces, NM     (575)642-3151

****************************************************************************
*********************************

On 6/7/2016 6:04 AM, Ron Waters wrote:

Ray -

 

Job One would be to have a quality radiator shop rebuild your radiator.
There is a breech between the cooling tank on the bottom and the radiator
core itself. Your radiator is toast. Be sure to get a warranty as well.

 

There is no need to jury rig auxiliary tranny coolers, etc. Once you have a
new radiator, the system will work as expected. 

 

Removal of coolant from transmission: I would drop the pan and let all fluid
drain out. Also drain out the torque converter. Let everything drain for a
while. Then refill with fresh tranny fluid. You may want to work the car
through the gears a few times. Then shut engine off and drain the tranny
again. Then refill with fresh fluid again.

 

Removal of tranny fluid from coolant: Drain out cooling system, which may
include heater core if that was connected to the system. Add a weak solution
of coolant and water (I wouldn't run pure water thru the engine). Get engine
up to operating temperature. Then cool down and drain cooling system. Refill
with fresh coolant 50/50 mix and you should be in good shape.

 

Ron

 

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ray Melton rfmelton@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
<mailto:rfmelton@xxxxxxx%20[Chrysler300]>  

To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 6:15 PM

Subject: [Chrysler300] Transmission cooling line failure inside radiator

 

I have transmission fluid contaminating the cooling system, and water
contaminating the fluid in the transmission!  Seeking Advice.  How to
decontaminate transmission and entire cooling system.
 
Description of problem:   After manually refilling the Type F fluid (about
10 quarts) in the newly rebuilt Torqueflite in my 1957 300C, we came back
the next morning to find a big pool of water and transmission fluid under
the car!  They removed the transmission pan, which let out a considerable
amount of water and oil mix.  The Torque converter was completely drained.
There were remnants of pink oil visible on the cooling passages when the
radiator cap was removed.  The radiator was drained of the remaining oil and
water mixture.  
 
It was quickly concluded that the tubing for transmission fluid at the
bottom of the radiator had ruptured internally while the engine was being
run to perform the fluid fill process, pumping high-pressure pink fluid into
the radiator water while running.  But after shutting down for the night,
the heavier water pushed back through the (now unpressurized) ruptured oil
cooler line inside the radiator, which eventually pushed oil and water out
some overflow location near the back end of the transmission. 
 
The transmission was being run in Neutral, Drive and Reverse during the
fluid fill process, so we were unwittingly getting some water back into the
ruptured oil line as soon as the engine was shut down and the transmission
coolant line pressure went to zero.  Then as soon as the engine was
restarted, we were pumping some oil into the radiator and also pumping some
oil/water mix through the transmission. 
 
The entire cooling system (radiator, all hoses, all water passages in the
engine block and heads, etc.) is now contaminated with at least some amount
of transmission fluid, so I am seeking advice on how to best remove that
oily residue.  We plan to blow out the transmission fluid lines at the
bottom of the radiator to remove as much residual fluid as we can, and then
just cap off the inlet and outlet lines, so there will no longer be the
original oil/water heat exchanger functionality.  (That transmission fluid
cooing aspect will be addressed separately)  
 
Our tentative plan is to refill the radiator with a mixture of water and a
water-based degreaser like Simple Green, or Purple Power, then run the
engine until it's good and warm, then drain out all the coolant with solvent
and oily contaminant.  We will probably do the solvent flush routine until
we see no further trace evidence of transmission oil in the water coolant --
at least twice -- and then refill with distilled water and a water-based
rust remover called Evapo-Rust to remove some of the rust that is most
certainly all through the internal coolant passages after the vehicle sat
idle for 17 years.   I was planning to run that rust-remover coolant
combination  for several hours, or at least half a dozen hot/cooldown cycles
before going with a more permanent water and antifreeze mixture for everyday
driving.   
 
What to you guys think of that plan to remove residual tranny oil from the
coolant system?
 
We plan to connect the transmission cooling lines to an external auxiliary
oil-to-air transmission cooler that will be located in some open space
roughly in front of the bottom of the radiator wherever it looks like there
might be some air circulation path.   I was not planning to have any
fan-forced airflow device, relying just on convective cooling from a fairly
generous finned heat exchanger in whet will likely be a rather turbulent air
flow region (but I have NO way of knowing that!)  I don't know what
temperature the transmission fluid would like to be when it goes back into
the tranny after the cooling process, although I suspect it would be
somewhat higher than the temperature in the radiator, around 190 F as
governed by the thermostat.   I will have no reasonable way to tell what the
oil temp is when exiting the auxiliary heat exchanger, so I won't know if
the heat exchanger is doing a good enough job.  I know the air temperature
will usually be considerably cooler than the 190-degree water in the
radiator, but I also know that the heat exchange coefficient of the
oil-to-air cooler is much lower than the HX coefficient of the original
oil/water cooler system.   
 
What do you think of the oil-to-air auxiliary heat exchanger idea to replace
the original oil-to-water system? Any thoughts or advice are welcomed!   

 










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: "David Schwandt" <finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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