Hi Ron,
As far as getting the "estimate" in writing, in a sense, we did. He gave us his "street/strip" engine flyer, said this is what he does for $3500, we told him that was what we wanted, gave him $2500 to get started (and another $2000 along the way), and thought we were all on the same page. That's what made it so frustrating--it was never set up as a time and materials type of job. It turned out he could do a "normal" engine for that, but apparently not ours. For ours, without telling us, we were sort of switched to the "open checkbook" rebuild. Probably we should have used some "official" estimating form, which would hold up in court, but we're more handshake type of people. For me, life's to short to settle squabbles like this in court, regardless of who's right.
Anyway, as I said, it's all OK. If I had it to do all over again, I would still use him. And, I would recommend him, perhaps with an explanation of his "style." We got a great engine, paid much more than we thought we were going to have to pay, but I'm still happy with the job, and don't think the amount was unfair. As I said, even though I tried my best to get him to compromise on the price based on a legitimate misunderstanding, when he wouldn't, we still paid the full bill, shook hands and parted as friends.
Incidentally, out of curiosity I asked him what the warranty was. He said, "lifetime." I chuckled, but he said he was positive we would never have a problem with that motor, but if we did, just bring it back and he would take care of it. He asked if we wanted something in writing, but I said I would prefer his word, and we shook on that as well. As I said, we're sort of old school, and I believe if we should have a problem, whenever, he would make it right. Shannon
"Kindness to animals may be the best measure of a person's character."
Shannon -
For custom work like rebuilding an engine, it comes down
to time and materials. The shop has an excellent reputation and to expect a
first class rebuild for 3500 is unrealistic.
It probably would not have been a good idea to have your
'big guy' boyfriend just drive off without paying. The shop owner would have
reported it as a theft and y'all would have had the police at your door in no
time.
Lesson learned: Next time get the quote in writing,
including an itemized list of what the guy will do and what will cost
extra.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 1:13
PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Advice on
engine repair
I just wanted to take a minute to thank everyone who responded and
provide an update re this thread.
This is sort of a "good news/bad news" story.
The good news is that the engine started at the touch of a button, ran
unbelievably smoothly and sounded GREAT. I really do believe I got a
first class, probably better than new motor for the F. And that was my
ultimate objective.
The bad news is that the guy would not lower his
price even a little bit. The promised price was $3500, and the parts
totaled $3000, leaving an unexpected $3000 due on his bill. "Add-ons"
included mounting the engine on a stand so we could hear it run (which we
thought was included but the "quote" did not specifically state that) and
rebuilding and adjusting the carburetors. His explanation for the the
rest is that this is a very complicated engine, and required many extra hours
which he did not plan on. He insisted there was no way he could ever
have done all that he did for the $3500.
In that regard, he was probably right. In my
mind, the issue wasn't the quality of the work or a fair price for it.
If he had initially said, "look, I'm an expert and can build you the
best, most reliable engine out there, but it's going to cost you $9500," I
probably would have agreed. I do think the guy does excellent work.
But my point was that he severely mis-quoted the price, and he should
eat at least a portion of that.
However, he would not budge an inch, insisting he
was losing a lot even at the price he billed. In the end, I only had two
choices at the time. When we discussed the amount due, the engine was
strapped in, and we were ready to roll. One choice would have been to give him
a compromise amount which I thought was fair, get into our truck, and leave.
My boyfriend is a huge guy, and there is no way the guy (who is
handicapped, BTW) could have stopped us. Just as there is no paper trail
to support a lawsuit (which I had already decided against anyway), there would
be nothing to show we authorized any work, plus we had cash receipts showing
we had already paid more than the estimate, so a successful mechanics lien
would be highly improbable.
But we just don't do business that way.
Despite the mis-quote on the price, I believe the guy did actually put
in all the hours he said, did a good job, and the result was worth his price.
Looking around, he's not getting rich from his shop, which is in the
middle of nowhere and also where he lives. The bottom line, at least for
me, is that he's simply very poor at business communication. He truly
believed he was being fair, even more than fair, with us, and was very proud
at the way the engine turned out. So, we paid him the full amount, shook
hands, and departed friends.
In the end, to me it's not worth becoming
embittered by the whole experience. I got an excellent engine for a
price I was willing to pay, so the fact that it was not as good a deal as I
thought it was going to be isn't so important.
Again, thanks to all who responded.
Shannon
Hi Shannon,
The engine builder you chose has a very good reputation. The
description of machine work done is very detailed, and would be the same as
that done by my local Mopar engine builder. From what I see, the price
quoted was labor only, and was quite a deal. I think the parts price may be
a little high, but 413 pistons are pretty expensive. It sounds like a
misunderstanding between you both that can probably be worked out when you
meet in person.
Don
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 1:21 PM
Subject: [Chrysler300] Advice on engine repair
I'm afraid I already know the answer here, but I'm going to ask the group
for any opinions which might help.
Quite some time ago, we took our
motor to a reputed old Mopar engine rebuilding specialist/machine shop for a
complete and thorough rebuild. From what we could tell at the time, he had
excellent credentials, was reputable, and knew what he was doing. The
project was delayed initially when we discovered the engine which came with
the car (300F) was not the correct year, but with kind help from Scott Tozzi
and Don Verity, we managed to secure a proper, date correct engine. Now,
finally, the motor is supposed to be finished, and ready to pick
up.
The problem we are having is with the bill (although we don't
know how the engine runs yet). We were initially quoted $3500 plus parts for
a very thorough rebuild. Unfortunately, we did not get a written estimate
per se, but instead he gave us a printed flyer he had which described his
process and the price in great detail. It was one and a half full pages,
single spaced, VERY detailed, described the whole procedure, and even
discussed tolerances, etc.. Basically, it's about all you can do to a normal
engine, at least from my knowledge. We didn't want any high performance
mods--just a stock, very reliable motor. We did say we were OK with minor
modifications to enable running on unleaded gas or to create significant
improvements in reliability.
So far, we've given him $4500, and
thought we were nearly paid up, but today he said the motor is ready for
pickup, and he wants another $5000! We haven't seen the parts bill (I know
he put in pistons, and maybe a cam, which we didn't want), but we were
floored. The initial discussion started to go south over the phone, so we
thought it better to go there in person to deal with it, which we plan to do
on Friday. His explanation so far is that the $3500 was a special he was
running at the time, but it took a lot longer than what he thought, so this
is his bill.
My belief at this point is that we are getting totally
ripped off, but I don't see any other choice but to pay his price and get
our motor back. I suppose we would have a weak case in small claims court
for the overage (I'm guessing about $3500-4000, depending on the parts
cost), but otherwise I'm at a loss.
Does anyone have any better
ideas than paying the "ransom?"
As an aside, can anyone tell me what
a complete rebuild on a 413 from a 300F should cost? I guess if the going
rate was about $9K, I wouldn't feel as bad, but that seems awfully high to
me for a normal performance motor.
Any advice or thoughts would be
appreciated.
Shannon
300F convertible
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Posted by: Shannon <labloverdc@xxxxxxx>
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