Re: [Chrysler300]

On Mar 3, 2015, at 8:21 AM, 'Jack Boyle' jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I have had excellent luck using just an electric pump – admittedly a single carb car. I built a fuel line THROUGH the mechanical pump. I also cut the arm off the pump so all that is left dummy casting. You cannot tell by looking at the engine that the mechanical pump serves no function.

The best part of this is even after the car sits for months or hot days, it starts immediately – no cold oil-less cranking for extended periods, not to mention wear and tear on the starter.

…Jack

Jack Boyle

(913) 544 4650

Enjoying the same C-300 since 1967

IMG_0623 small

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx' mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2015 4:46 AM
To: c300@xxxxxxx
Cc: french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx; ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx; terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300]

In most of the pumps electrical contact for the solenoid is intermittent and occurs only as the discharge chamber in the pump is emptied. As the spring-loaded diaphragm forces the fuel out of that chamber a pair of contacts is closed to energize the solenoid coil. The diaphragm is drawn back against the compression spring bringing more fuel into the pump's chamber and again breaking the circuit to the solenoid coil so that the newly draw fuel charge can be pressurized by the spring and diaphragm. This repeated operation is the oscillation that you can hear. As the carburetors fill, the fuel flow decreases and the stroke of the diaphragm tends to shorten a bit and the oscillation rate increases, thus the change in pitch of the sound from the pump. When there is no flow there is no oscillation and the pump is inactive except that the loaded spring continues to hold the diaphragm against the trapped fuel charge in the pump. Leakage within the pump (imperfect check valves) allow slow loss of pressure and an occasional click might be heard.

This operation is not very different from that of the engine mounted diaphragm pump except in how the spring is reloaded against the diaphragm. The eccentric on the camshaft moves a lever to mechanically compress the spring that presses against the diaphragm. As long as there is pressure in the pump and no fuel flow is occurring there is no movement of the diaphragm in the pump. A second spring keeps the operating lever in contact with the eccentric so that mechanical noises are suppressed, but that motion is not linked to the diaphragm until some of the fuel escapes. As in the electric pump the stroke shortens with slow flow because there is not much time for the diaphragm to move before the camshaft's eccentric will again reload the spring. The rate of that oscillation changes only as the engine speed changes.

---------------Marshall

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
To: <mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx>
Cc: <french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx>, <ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx>, <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300]
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 20:58:24 -0800

Hmmmâ€¦Â My pump seems to keep buzzing but at a different pitch.Â Are you saying the solenoid keeps buzzing but produces no net flow?Â Once the hemi starts, the three-chamber Flowmasters drown out all little noisesâ€”and some of the big ones.

Rich Barber

(The other) Brentwood,

1955 C-300â€”sold to the man in Illinois

1964 300K convertible-work in progress.

From: mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx [mailto:mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 3:57 PM
To: c300@xxxxxxx
Cc: french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx; ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx; terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300]

There's no risk of damage to the engine operated pump or to the electric diaphragm pump when using both pumps in the same line. The electric/solenoid pump does not need a bypass system to control or limit the pressure. It's the spring working against the diaphragm that provides the correct low pressure. The solenoid simply reloads the spring as the fuel is released from the pressurized chamber. When there is no longer any flow from the pump the oscillation of the solenoid-diaphragm-spring ceases. At least that's the way that most of our accessory pumps work.

--------------Marshall Goodknight

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'John Lazenby'" <french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx>, "'Ryan Hill'" <ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx>, "'Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300]
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 15:19:35 -0800

I believe the way the electrical pump works on our Ã¢â‚¬â„¢55 C-300 is that it will pump through the mechanical fuel pump when the key is turned on and continue to do so until the bowls are full and the float valve shuts off the input.Ã‚ I can hear the pitch of the pump change when this happens and it make take 15-30 seconds.Ã‚ I know then that the engine is good to go.Ã‚ Give the accelerator pedal a couple of pumps to put some witchÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s brew into the manifolds, pull the chokes out by 3/8Ã¢â‚¬Â on a cold engine and it starts IMMEDIATELY.Ã‚ I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know why the manual chokes are on the car but assume it was hard starting while the car was earning its keep in the Colorado Springs area for 30 years.

I think my fuel pump is a positive displacement pump, operated by an oscillating solenoid.Ã‚ It must have a bypass built into it to limit its outlet pressure.

And, yes, I put my car at risk of a blown mechanical pump diaphragm that would allow gasoline to flow into the block.Ã‚ I did have the electric pump wired to only operate when I pressed an additional push button but the car acted a little starved so I changed it to full time.Ã‚ Now I see the poor operation may have been due to the ignition wire problem previously discussed.

Rich B.

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Lazenby french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 2:19 PM
To: Ryan Hill
Cc: terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300]

Good thought Ryan but several of my cars don't have electric pumps and they are still failing.

John Lazenby

On Monday, March 2, 2015 2:16 PM, "Ryan Hill ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

John, with all due respect. You were just stating you're replacing your mechanical pumps annually on all but one of your cars. Are you certain it is only due to ethanol? Is it possible the failures are linked to pushing fuel through your mechanical pump while the engine is not cranking or running?

Ryan Hill

_____

To: ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx; pffkllc@xxxxxxx; jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx; fabe7445@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 21:01:51 +0000
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300]

I've experienced zero problems with electric pumps.

John Lazenby

On Monday, March 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ryan Hill ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Just a curious thought. Are any of you guys experiencing pump failures using electric auxiliary pumps to prime your systems? I know they're low volume pumps that are generally being used but wondered whether pushing fuel through a mechanical pump could do any damage to the valve/diaphram?

Ryan Hill

_____

To: french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx; jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx; fabe7445@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 15:37:13 -0500
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300]

Query, does Ethanol erode neoprene as well as lesser materials? I think the newer materials being used to rebuild fuel pumps may be more resistant. Comments will be appreciated.

Pete Fitch

In a message dated 3/2/2015 3:32:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

I've gone through numerous fuel pumps lately due to the crummy California gas. I believe I'm replacing them annually on each car now with one exception. Our '53 Imperial Newport still has the original pump and it always works. Now that I've stated that I'm sure it will start to leak. Beyond that I've had no issues.

John Lazenby

On Monday, March 2, 2015 12:18 PM, "John Nowosacki jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Forgot to mention I also blame modern gas for hotter exhaust temps that cook manifold gaskets faster and dry out valve cover gaskets on the Hurst from close proximity to the HiPo exhaust manifolds.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2015, at 3:04 PM, JAMES FABER <fabe7445@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Check out gas stations around a lake - marine facilities. we live in a lake area and quite a few stations carry ethanol free gas for all the boaters, especially the bass boats with their hi gh HP outboards.

Jim in sunny, 71F South Carolina (supposed to rain tomorrow)

On Monday, March 2, 2015 2:57 PM, "John Nowosacki jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

We've been on max (10%) ethanol in MA for quite a while now, and while it has ruined a couple of fuel lines in weed wackers and chain saws, it does not appear to have damaged any of my 300s. It has messed up the SU style carbs in my 72 MG Midget, as well as the sending unit in the gas tank and the electric fuel pump.

There isn't a single station in the state that sells real gasoline.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Terry Mctaggart terrymct999@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I just read in Autoweek mag Jay Leno's essay on the evils of ethanol. In my 300F I have been running a mix of 100+ octane leaded aviation gas and pump premium spiked with the normal amount of ethanol. Has anybody in the Club experienced any problems with today's ethanol-infused gas? Jay talks about rubber parts (in fuel pumps, for example) being eaten up and ensuing engine fires. Terry McTaggart

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