Re: [Chrysler300] 300-G at B-J.

Take a look at the book “We were the Ramchargers”. It goes into a lot of the development in the transmission and suspension department. And yes, they did use that pin syncro trans in the early cars. They also mentioned how hard it was to keep one in one piece. A few races were lost because it would not do the 1 2 shift.

Don

From: mailto:Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 1:04 PM

To: 'Mike' ; 'John Nowosacki'

Cc: 'peter fitch' ; 'Ron Waters' ; 'Matthew Ostrowski' ; 'Ryan Hill' ; 'list server'

Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300-G at B-J.

Interesting re :my prior write up about manual trans of this period; Jim Bartuska kindly sent me a factory item (thank you ,Jim) about the development of this trans and the related smaller one in 318 Darts and Valiants..both new for 60, HD version in 300 in 61 . Dart/Valiant had 3” gear centers, HD one 3.25. About same design, one is bigger.

Related to my very clear experience of popping those like jelly beans, ( went through about 20 of them behind 392). The HD one , which I think I never encountered, unbelievably had kept the old mopar pin syncros in a new design . One fast shift, the way fast cars are really shifted, by real car guys, would for sure break off those pins and blow up the trans. The pins fall into the gear mesh A design for grandmothers to shift, 200k or not .

So to look at , in a G , only.

Now I can understand why max wedge, maybe even in 61? came with T-85, the competitor trans , mostly used in HD fords/trucks . One try of this pin blocker and forget it with Max wedge. T-85 has conventional , and large, cone syncros . The factory bulletin Jim sent describes the pin syncro as “blocking the shift absolutely unless gears are at same speed, with light pressure, but with heavy pressure the pins have a taper half way allowing you to over ride the syncro action for fast shift”

…. If gears are close to meshable (right, got a bridge to sell?) .

What really happens is pins momentarily transmit the torque to force the gears to ramp up faster, before the override described. The pins are physically about ¼” OD, 3 of them about 2” long , down to about 3/16 , diameter on open (business) end in a receiving collar ring, (After down taper from the ¼” ), and fit into 3 ~1/4 holes, allowing a shift when pin fits into hole (aligned) . The closed end of the pin holding ring attaches to , or is, a driven ring , maybe pins are pressed into it . Given the description, one can see how the pins are carrying the tremendous twisting torque an inch out from their mounting, while sitting at the taper trying to mesh, and so will snap off under stress. What happened, for sure, is what is described----now I know why. Thank you Jim..

You would not get one run out of this truly lousy design behind a max wedge. 1-2 shift and boom. So now we know more about “HD MOPAR” vs T 85m thing in 61-62. And rumors at the time. BW cone syncros wear out but cannot break off , I had a best friend with 270 HP vette (dual quad 283, 60, 3:70’s ) ; Before that he had a full house 56 Desoto Adventurer, I think it was a stick too. . he would shift Vette at WOT at 7500 without touching clutch,-- all the time, just grab and yank it, he even broke the handle off once. That would blow off all his fan belts ; but he often won against 61 -62 315 4:11 fuelie vettes. . T-10 4 speed, aluminum case, never blew up. Comparison to my , and his, mopar manual transmission woes inevitable ; Chrysler said T10 not strong enough, in 60, they were right. Packard looked to me to be a T85 on steroids. For later tech guys, or Ford, it was a Top Loader ,---right from 1935 or so. Packard guys were GOOD.

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike mwl1967@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 9:55 AM
To: John Nowosacki
Cc: peter fitch; Ron Waters; Matthew Ostrowski; Ryan Hill; list server
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300-G at B-J.

Scottsdale BJ no reserve unless they agree your car is worth $500k. At their Vegas auction it's $150k. Russo Steele allows reserves but makes suggestions. They sent a rep out to look at three of my cars, spent four hours and days later got back to me with a suggested reserve. Their response was that "they're there to sell cars not host a car show". I get that but in a questionable market if I needed to sell the choice between a low reserve at Russo and no reserve at Barrett I'd go with Barrett.

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On Jan 19, 2015, at 7:40 AM, "John Nowosacki jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think in the crazy days of the early 2000's, they went the no reserve route, and now have allowed some reserve cars again. I also think you can pay a premium to get a Saturday or Sunday slot?

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 8:53 AM, pffkllc@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I noticed that several of the cars at BJ did have reserves on them, so maybe they have changed their practices. I think the no reserve thing may have kept a lot of cars away. In any event, it appears that you may now have a reserve on the sale.

Pete

In a message dated 1/18/2015 9:04:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Of course, there is a risk involved with taking the B-J route. Cars are sold at no reserve. If you end up with a lousy day/time, the car may sell for less than it would on Saturday night.

Ron

----- Original Message -----

From: mailto:pffkllc@xxxxxxx%20[Chrysler300]

To: Matthew Ostrowski

Cc: Ryan Hill ; mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx%3E

Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 6:13 PM

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300-G at B-J.

I guess the answer is that if you have a really nice letter car and want to sell it, you should at least consider BJ. Of course, if you sell it there the proceeds may be taxable whereas if you sell it privately, uncle will probably not know about the sale.

Pete

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On Jan 18, 2015, at 3:51 PM, Matthew Ostrowski <m.ostrowski@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm with you Pete, it's a positive thing for letter car owners. There is a greater awareness.

Heck I would have sold my G to the buyer for $100,000.00, saved the buyer some dinner money!

Matt O

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On Jan 18, 2015, at 2:08 PM, pffkllc@xxxxxxx wrote:

OK Ryan

Are we better off with the G selling at $200,000 or at $45,000?

I would submit that having it sell for more is better than having it sell for less.

Pete Fitch

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On Jan 18, 2015, at 11:42 AM, Ryan Hill ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

IMHO - I think you would be dreaming to think the price of other G's just rose anywhere near 20% based on one car's sale, especially if G owners begin to test the market and flood it with inventory. There just aren't the buyers out there to support the demand at that price point, even as investments. A knee jerk reaction may ensue to some degree but I would be surprised if it could be sustained.

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On Jan 18, 2015, at 3:06 AM, "Matthew Ostrowski m.ostrowski@xxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ryan,

Even if it pushes prices 20% higher it's heading in a positive direction. It's not unlike a comp for real estate, supply vs demand. If the BJ auction begins to set a tone and begin the wave then be ready for the ride. Right after the auction a neighbor (classic car guy) of mine calls me and tells me about the sale then says "your car is really valuable Matt, it's easy to thing it's worth less!" If the car is marketed right, at the right venue you might hit it right.

Be well

Matt Ostrowski

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On Jan 18, 2015, at 3:21 AM, "Ryan Hill ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I don't know about the rest of you but a single sale a BJ wouldn't sway me to pay more or less today than I would have yesterday. All it takes is for a couple of guys with more money (or credit) than good sense to get into a pissing contest over the same car and the price moves well beyond what the real market will bare. Time will tell if overall values of all G's will actually be impacted beyond next week. I wouldn't get too excited just yet or someone will be posting there dismay at the 'poor' result the next auction brings when a similar car only brings $100k.

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On Jan 17, 2015, at 7:24 PM, "Matthew Ostrowski m.ostrowski@xxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Pete,

Stick or no stick that sale just raised the values of all existing G's. It's a good thing.

Be well.

Matthew Ostrowski

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On Jan 17, 2015, at 8:24 PM, "pffkllc@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

For anyone who missed it a 300-G three speed stick car was sold for $200,000.
As usual the broadcasters had some things wrong but, for the most part they had good things to say about the car.
I wonder how much of that sales price was due to the stick shift.
Pete Fitch

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