Thanks, John, Nice to hear from those who were there! We don't have many of 'em left! Please thank him for us. Greg
Sent from my iPad
After I sent my post regarding the three different Hemi engine versions I received a communication from Burt Bouwkamp. He was there when all of those motors were bring developed and used. I asked his permission to post what he sent me and he gave me the go ahead.
John, My first job at Chrysler after I graduated in 1951 from the
Chrysler Institute of Engineering was as the coordinating engineer in the Engine Lab for the 241 cu. in Red Ram Dodge V-8 hemi engine. We built about 25 prototype engines and my job was to schedule where/how the engines were to be used and to keep them up to date. We made many changes during the development and test program and those changes had to be incorporated in the engines still on test in the Carburetor Lab, Vehicle Testing, Dynamometer Lab etc. My job was to schedule those updates. The three hemi’s (331 CID, 276 CID, and 241 CID) were unique. The only internal parts they shared were the hydraulic tappets. Our mentality at that time was that each carline had to have a unique engine. We cared about the engine pedigree – but most customers
didn’t. When the Red Ram engine went into production, in 1952 I moved to the DeSoto Warren Plant to help this new manufacturing plant build the Fire Dome engine. In 1954 I moved on to the Chrysler Division as the Resident Engineer for Fire Power engines. In 1959 we change to the B and RB engines because Management decided that the cost and weight penalty of the hemi engine wasn’t worth it. I guess we (engineers) didn’t do a good job selling customers, dealers
and management the technical advantages of a hemispherical combustion chamber.
At least Chrysler was up front with this. I remember Cadillac owners complaining about the Chevy engines under their hoods with Cadillac valve covers bolted to the cylinder heads. Then think of how easy it is for us to get correct part numbers for our Brutes. Somebody up there loves us.
Best, Ron Kurtz E #292
"I find it interesting that Chrysler Corp. changed the bore and stroke of the ’51-’55 Chrysler hemi’s that produced 330.41 cubes to the ’56 DeSoto hemi that produced 331.06 cubes—a whopping 0.65 cubes reduction. I’m sure they had their reasons to go with a longer stroke and smaller bore—perhaps the blocks are that much different in length and prevented any more boring." The first generation of Chrysler product Hemi engines were all different in that virtually nothing interchanged. A DeSoto block is visually smaller than the Chrysler and the Dodge is yet a step down from the DeSoto. As I've heard production cost for the cylinder heads was part of the reason for that generation coming to an end. Also Chrysler figured out they they could share engines throught their entire product line and save some $$. This is why the guys with the sharp pencils are called "Bean Counters".......... John Lazenby
There is a picture of the RR quarter of a ’56 De Soto Adventurer on the cover of the July 2014 Hemmings Motor News. The rear quarter panels look very similar to those of ’56 Chryslers, including 300’s. The ends of the rear bumpers appear to come up a little further on the Chryslers so any interchange of taillights would probably have to be accompanied by a change in the rear bumpers also. Much of the tin, glass, drivetrain and suspension of the ’55-’56 Chryslers and De Soto’s is interchangeable with some slight mods. The Adventurer even has the little oval tailpipe extensions. I find it interesting that Chrysler Corp. changed the bore and stroke of the ’51-’55 Chrysler hemi’s that
produced 330.41 cubes to the ’56 DeSoto hemi that produced 331.06 cubes—a whopping 0.65 cubes reduction. I’m sure they had their reasons to go with a longer stroke and smaller bore—perhaps the blocks are that much different in length and prevented any more boring. I’m sharing a table I built of the dimensions of the early hemi’s. Corrections welcomed. There are some slight discrepancies between advertised and calculated displacement. It looks like the 392 was actually a 393 and the 354 was a 353. Another interesting historical fact is that the bore and stroke of the ’51-‘55 Chrysler hemi were the exact same dimensions as those of the ’49-‘55 Cadillac OHV V-8. The hemi heads and solid lifters of the ’55 C-300 got the horsepower wars off to a fine start. One can also note the progression of the first offering of the hemi engine—1951-Chrysler; 1952-De Soto and 1953-Dodge. Plymouth did not get a hemi until 1964—and produced a NASCAR winner with King Richard at the wheel. Rich Barber Brentwood, CA. EARLY HEMI DISPLACEMENTS, BORES, STROKES | | Year(s) | Car | Model | Adv. Disp. | Stroke | Bore | Disp-calc | 1 | '53-'54 | Dodge | Red Ram | 241 | 3.250 | 3.4375 | 241.30 | 2 | '55-'56 | Dodge | Truck (B&S est.) | 259 | 3.250 | 3.5625 | 259.16 | 3 | '55 | Dodge | Super Red Ram | 270 | 3.250 | 3.6250 | 268.34 | 4 | '52-'54 | DeSoto | Firedome | 276 | 3.340 | 3.6250 | 275.77 | 5 | '55 | DeSoto | Fireflite | 291 | 3.340 | 3.7200 | 290.41 | 6 | '56 | Dodge | D500 | 315 | 3.800 | 3.6250 | 313.75 | 7 | '57 | Dodge | D500 | 325 | 3.800 | 3.6875 | 324.66 | 8 | '56 | DeSoto | Firedome, Fireflite | 330 | 3.800 | 3.7200 | 330.41 | 9 | '51-'55 | Chrysler | Chry, 300, NY, Imp | 331 | 3.625 | 3.8125 | 331.06 | 10 | '56-'57 | DeSoto | Fdome, Fflite, Adv | 341 | 3.800 | 3.7812 | 341.37 | 11 | '57 | DeSoto | Adventurer | 345 | 3.800 | 3.8000 | 344.77 | 12 | '56 | Chrysler | NY, 300, Imp | 354 | 3.625 | 3.9375 | 353.13 | 13 | '57-'58 | Chrysler | NY, 300, Imp | 392 | 3.910 | 4.0000 | 393.08 |
57-58 he mentioned , bumper is part of taillight housing? Do not know about 56
Yes, I remember seeing that 56. It's there every year. The short answer is, no, Desoto had three stacked lights, 56-59. Of course, it would be easy to swap out the regular taillights for a Chrysler taillight housing. At the Macungie show last year, there was a 56 Desoto with 56 Chrysler taillights. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 8:27 AM Subject: [Chrysler300] Unusual DeSoto? Last evening I was washing my 300H and my Challenger in the driveway and an unusual car went down the road. It was a very nice looking 1957 or 58 DeSoto, salmon and white in color, could have been a Firesweep or Sportsman 2 door hardtop. The unusual thing was, it had what appeared to be 58 Chrysler taillights. I thought Desotos had three stacked round lights, but this looked like the 58 Chrysler lights. Anyone know anything about this? I know a lot of DeSoto sheetmetal was shared, but did DeSoto use Chrysler lights in any of their models in 57 or 58? I have never seen this car in my neighborhood before, so naturally, I noticed.
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