[Chrysler300] Whoa, Nelly

["Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>]

Yes, the Supplemental 300K Service Manual indicates the front & rear primary linings on the ram car brakes were only 9 ¼” long as compared to 12 1/8” long on all other 300 shoes.  The manual also shows different linings have  different color coded markings which I interpreted to mean they were of different material—although the service manual says all are “moulded” (sic) bonded asbestos (gasp).  Anyway, there appear to be different asbestos formulations with different frictional properties.

 

My 300K convertible was originally equipped with a ram engine and had new brake shoes all around on it when I got it.  However, the back shoes were only 2 ½” wide—as with the Newports.   The car did have the proper 3” wide rear drums as found on ram K cars, New Yorkers and Imperials. As is often the case with Mother Mopar, she sometimes publishes conflicting data.  The basic service manual specifies 2 ½” wide rear brake shoes in Newports only while the Supplemental 300K manual indicates 2 ½” wide rear shoes on the 360HP 300K.  The parts manual is even crazier with lots more options and seeming inconsistencies.  Then, there are the AMA spec’s that show the linings are 11.97” long with 3” wide shoes only on NY wagons, only.  The options list indicates the HD (3” rear drums) brakes were standard on the ream cars and optional on other 300’s.  I was able to find and have installed 3” wide rear shoes and associated springs, pins and various mounting hardware.  None of the shoes had exactly 12 1/8’ long linings and the linings on all the shoes were about the same length.  Seems to work fine.  

 

It would appear that a lot of work had been conducted on the best lining material and length.  Perhaps for durability, noise control, fade resistance, dynamics & etc.  I’m not convinced we could have bought the brake shoes specified in the Supplemental Manual for a ram car from a Chrysler dealer in 1964.  Fifty years later, fergitaboutit.  Just remember to put 3” wide rear shoes in 3” wide drums.  Today’s new or relined front and rear shoes are apparently interchangeable.

 

C300K’ly,

Rich

 

From: news4ge@xxxxxxx [mailto:news4ge@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 8:48 PM
To: c300@xxxxxxx; d.verity@xxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] J / ram K 

 

Rich Barber and J/ramK owners,

 

 

Thanks Rich, for the information.  I noticed that in the 64 supplement you sent the link for, the ramK and non-ramK have different brake shoes.  The ram cars actually have smaller front primary shoes.  Does anybody know why this would be?  Also, the shoes that are available now (at least at Rock Auto) don't distinguish between ram and non-ram cars (or even between 300 and 300K).  Has anybody had problems getting the right shoes for a ram K?  Would either or both size shoes fit?  

 

Thanks,

 

George Clineman

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Barber <c300@xxxxxxx>
To: 'Don Verity' <d.verity@xxxxxxx>; Chrysler300 <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; News4ge <News4ge@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Sat, Jan 11, 2014 7:57 pm
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] J / ram K master cylinders

George:

 

That’s what we did for our ’64 ram K.  However, previously, someone had replaced the ram engine with a non-ram 383, disconnected the remote booster and installed a standard power brake booster and MC on the firewall.  The standard booster has a different reinforcing/mounting plate on the firewall than does the non-boosted MC and I had to obtain the correct plate in order to install the non-boosted MC.  

 

Removal of the residual pressure “check valve” from the firewall MC is critical in order that the actuating pressure be bled off the remote boosted cylinder.  Otherwise, the brakes will drag and overheat.  It was news to me that this little check valve even existed.  It is commonly used on brake systems to keep a very light residual positive pressure on the brake system to reduce its tendency to inhale atmospheric air and moisture.

 

Another ramK owner was trying to modify his brakes to use a dual outlet MC, but we saw no way to integrate a dual outlet MC into the remote-boosted system.  So great care should be taken to assure all hoses, tubing and connections are strong, non-corroded and tight as a broken line or hose will leave you with NO SERVICE BRAKES.  I did run into a bad batch of wheel cylinders and the little MC which seeped from the get-go.  Seemed almost like sabotage by our Asian manufacturers.  I suspect poor synthetic material in the cups and improper finish in the bores, but can prove nothing.

 

The master cylinder body and guts for a ’63-’64 ram car is actually a common item and may be purchased new or rebuilt for a 1964 Plymouth, Dodge or Chrysler without power brakes—then the check valve must be removed from the outlet.  I recall the guts had to be removed in order to poke out the little check valve wafer.  The non-presence of the check valve makes the MC a technically different item but the body, guts and mounting system are the same.  

 

There is a specific bleeding schedule that must be used to eliminate air from throughout the brake system.  The process is defined in the 1964 300K Supplemental Service manual which can be viewed at:  

http://www.jholst.net/64-supplement/brakes.pdf  (Page 2).  All readers are encouraged to visit member John Holst’ most excellent website and click on “Chrysler 300 Resources” to view a wide array of service and parts manuals and other information for all years of letter cars.  John still drives the 300K originally purchased by his father.

 

C300K’ly,

Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx?> ] On Behalf Of Don Verity
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 4:26 PM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; News4ge@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] J / ram K master cylinders

 

  

>From what I have learned from the guru of K’s Don Cole, just get a master for a manual brake car and take out the residual valve (the remote booster has one). I got one for my J, but have yet to install it. Looks good though and has the studs through the firewall. I got it from Rock Auto. 

Don

 

From: News4ge@xxxxxxx 

Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 5:37 PM

To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Subject: [Chrysler300] J / ram K master cylinders

 

  

Hi, 

 

I have a ram K that has a slight leak in the master cylinder and a leaking wheel cylinder, so I'm doing a complete brake job.  

 

I have 3 questions:

 

1.  Are the brake systems on J and ram K identical in every way?  I ask because I may find parts for a J and not for a ram K.  Also, there's less confusion if I ask for something for a J because the K has both ram and non ram parts.

 

2.  Does anyone know of a good source for a rebuilt master cylinder?  All of the parts houses I've checked either don't go back that far or they have master cylinders for all Chryslers but J or K.  I know there's Kanter, but their price is high.

 

3.  Anything else I should know, like helpful hints on doing the work, procuring parts, what mfrs. to use or avoid, etc.?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

George Clineman



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or
go to http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join and select the "Leave Group" button

For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm

For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylangYahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    Chrysler300-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Chrysler300-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
    http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/