Re: [Chrysler300] Fwd: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation

[Steve Albu <saforwardlook@xxxxxxxxx>]

Pumping the throttle with a dry carburetor due to a long period of storage
where the fuel has evaporated (usually more than a week for this to happen)
should not affect the accelerator pump at all. That has never been a
problem for me and as the previous post stated, the leather tends to shrink
up slightly and in no way should be destroyed from pumping the throttle
with the bowl dry.
If the car takes a long time to start after a hot soak, and the time
required to crank the engine is more than 10 seconds, then something else
is wrong, perhaps the carburetor is leaking internally. I really doubt that
with a fuel vent present, the fuel would flood the engine, unless the vent
cap/lever were misadjusted to not let the vent actually vent when the
engine is turned off with the throttle closed. And I also doubt the bowl
would be empty after 3 hours of sittling during a hot soak. I live in
California where we have routine high temperatures and the junk ethanol
(E10) gasoline for some time now and do not have these issues.
The only issues I do have are related to E10 fuel going bad after some 6
months or more of sitting or not being changed out. With this junk fuel,
varnish tends to form in the carburetor and plugs the needle and seats of
the floats so they either do not open when cranking the engine or they are
stuck open thus flooding the engine and potentially leading to hydrostatic
lock and damage to the engine if it is not shut off quickly after realizing
this is happening (runs rough and won't clear out immediately). Also, the
check valve in the accelerator pump will also stick, so that the needed
fuel squirt into the intake manifold will not happen, so the engine will
not start when cold. After sitting some time with the carburetor bowls dry,
just cranking an engine without a fuel pump shot of fuel will usually not
allow the engine to start. The off idle and main circuits do not provide
enough fuel by themselves to enable a cold engine to start without a pump
shot even with the choke nearly closed. To address these issuess, I am
trying using fuel preservatives such as Stabil or Starbrite or Lucas and a
two cycle oil used in small quantities that has the T3 WC rating to see if
I can avoid these varnish related problems. Stabil claims it will keep E10
gasoline good for up to a year while Starbite claims more like 3 years. The
small engine and motorcycle folks seems to be having good results with
these additives at least and are gravitating to the Starbrite additive with
the specified two stroke oil. I will see......................
Steve Albu


On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 1:32 PM, <retromobilia@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> **
>
>
> any comments on this Chrysler info.
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "C Bilter" <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Imperial-Club@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:07:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation
>
> This is what I was taught by a long time Mopar expert many years ago. I
> don?t know if ?stretch? is the proper term or not; perhaps someone who
> knows more about carbs can weigh in. But I have seen the effects of pumping
> a dry carb and it ruins the pump.
>
> From: Danno
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 1:49 PM
> To: Imperial-Club@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation
>
> How does the accelerator pump leather get stretched? I don't understand
> how pumping would stretch the leather on the accelerator pump. If it were
> dry it would tend to be shrunk down some and have less pressure on the
> walls of the pump well, but even if it wasn't shrunk I don't see how the
> pump piston simply moving up and down in the pump well would stretch the
> leather.
>
> Danno
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: C Bilter
> To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation
>
> I would exercise some caution about ?pumping? the accelerator pedal with a
> dry carb after a dry winter of sitting. After a few months of sitting, most
> if not all of the fuel in the carb has evaporated, and probably much or
> most of the fuel in the fuel filter and line to the carb. If you have the
> leather-type accelerator pump in the carb (pre-late 70?s), it will be dry.
> Pumping will stretch the dry leather and will quickly ruin the accelerator
> pump. I have seen many cars where this has happened. If you have a properly
> working fuel pump then all you should need to do is carefully manually set
> the choke closed by hand under the hood, and crank the engine in several
> increments of 15 seconds or so. This will draw fuel up through the system
> and it also builds oil pressure. The car likely will start without any
> pumping if everything is in tune, but after cranking some you can pump the
> pedal once or twice if necessary to hasten starting. Anyway, this procedure
> dramatically increases the longevity of the accelerator pump.
>
> As discussed earlier, some folks just pour some gas in the bowls to hasten
> starting (but you might get clattering lifters at first due to low oil
> pressure), and some folks use an electric fuel pump to draw the fuel up
> after sitting a long time to avoid the cranking and battery drain. The
> electric fuel pumps are especially handy on the crossram 300s which have
> dual four bbl carbs that both need gas.
>
> Carl B
> From: Allen C. Fownes
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:47 PM
> To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation
>
> I read about carburetor 'leakdown' which can damage your valves and rings.
> My newly rebuilt Holley does not leak down. I pump it a half dozen times
> after a winter of sitting and it starts right away.
>
> The previous one needed a lot of pumping to prime it after sitting for a
> few days.
> On Mar 23, 2013 4:15 AM, "Danno" <mailto:danteeqs%40sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. When I asked the questions about
> > evaporation I was thinking of the original poster's question.
> >
> > He said he had hard starting in a 67 Crown Coupe when the car sat for
> few
> > hours or more. He said the engine is all original and he has to pump
> > "forever" or pour gas in the carb to get it to start. He also said he
> does
> > not use ethanol.
> >
> > Some are suggesting that the fuel is evaporating. My question in
> response
> > to that was how is it evaporating.
> >
> > If the fuel is evaporating from the carb then how does it do this? I
> know
> > there are small bowl vents on a an orginal 1967 Holly carb and at least
> one
> > of those vents has a little cap that covers the vent when the throttle
> is
> > closed... but is it possible, even with 10% gasohol, that most of the
> fuel
> > from the bowl, a few fluid ounces worth, is evaporating through those
> small
> > vent openings over the course of a few hours?
> >
> > It is easy to investigate this. If you suspect this is happening, simply
> > remove that air horn from the carb and look. But I think a bad check
> valve
> > in the fuel pump can cause this by allowing the fuel to drain back by
> > gravity.
> >
> > I think the original posters problem is not related to evaporation. I
> > know, from personal experience, that this type of issue in Imperials
> from
> > the early 60's with a 413 engine can be caused by a weak fuel pump,
> severly
> > worn fuel pump push rod or bad check valves in the fuel pump. A weak
> > accelerator pump itself or bad check valve for the accelerator pump can
> > also cause this type of problem and this is very easy to check. If there
> is
> > fuel in the bowl and a squirt of fuel is not visible down the throat of
> the
> > carb when the throttle is pumped then it's there is a problem.
> >
> > A very basic evaluation of fuel pump efficiency can be made by
> > disconnecting the line at the carb, putting it in a container and
> cranking
> > the engine. I don't know of a way to evaluate the operation of the
> outlet
> > check valve in the fuel pump. I do know that the check valves and
> diaphram
> > in a fuel pump should be of viton rubber if you use an ethanol gasoline
> > mixture.
> >
> > I'd like to hear from people who use E10 fuel, have original equipment,
> > and do not have this type of problem. I have two 63's and a 62 and I use
> > E10 and don't have this problem. If I don't start a car for a month or
> two
> > I will have to pump it a few times but not if it sits for a few days or
> a
> > week.
> > Danno
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: mailto:staffel%40comcast.net
> > To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:53 PM
> > Subject: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation
> >
> > Danno- Joe Machado gave a great explanation of the evaporation factor.
> > When you shut down a hot engine the evaporation is instantaneous. In 4-5
> > minutes on really hot days, on my single barrel Dodges and the Alum v8
> > Skylark 4brl, the evaporation can either 'air block' /vapor lock or
> flood
> > the intakes so hard starting occurs. You can smell the evaporating field
> > anywhere @ the front of the car. The gas formulation on the 1950-60's
> was
> > different. Didn't do this like today's fuels.
> >
> > So when the engine is hot a 1/3 to 1/2 minute or more of cranking is
> > required to either refill the fuel bowl; or cool the fuel bowl/ Carb
> with
> > cooler gas or air to clear by intake suction into the intake manifold to
> > enable starting.
> >
> > Even if the engines are hot and running and I turn them off if I
> > immediately restart the engine --/ no problem - instant fire. So its not
> > ignition or timing. Its the compounding effects of the 10% ethanol
> (alcohol
> > evaporation).
> >
> > Sherman Taffel
> > Columbia MD
> >
> > Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
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>  
>


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