RE: [Chrysler300] 1958 300D Brake shoe lining

[christopher beilby <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

1) Henry has thrown a bit more lght on the oddities of Chrysler front brakes that use two wheel cylinders per wheel. Most other drum brakes used only one cylinder - that is why on those types/them, the 'leading' brake lining should always be shorter than the 'trailing' one - as explained just earlier, the leading one gets sort of 'sucked on', once it contacts the drum, whereas the trailing one never does, and has to be pushed hard all the way/time to get same result.
 
To overcome this 'single wheel cylinder' activating two linings with unequal application, Chrysler, and for one other, Austin Healey, used two wheel cylinders - directly opposite each other, and in this case, BOTH LININGS SHOULD BE SAME LENGTH - as then both will give equal stopping force/power. ( Twin cylinders were more expensive, so usually only used on higher performance/sports models, before disc brakes replaced all drum types.)
(Rear brakes being single piston - shorter lining on front, but oddly Chrysler looks like 'factory', both were same length!!??  And another Mopar 'oddity', adjust two front brake adjuster cams different way on fronts, versus way you turn the rear adjusters .)
 
2) Please read this bit if not already bored to death about 300 Brakes!!?
And this brings me to another 'thought' as to why many 300 restorers have trouble with poor Mopar/Chrysler late 50s early 60s brakes - AND THIS IS JUST A/MY THEORY - SHOOT ME DOWN IF YOU HAVE BETTER IDEAS/THOUGHTS???
 
Critical to good/sound operation in restoring these twin cylinder per front wheel brakes, is likely the only thing that might be different today to how Chrysler made them ?! ANY IDEAS WHY THEY ARE SO BAD TODAY !!??
Well my 'thought' is because there are 4 front wheel cylinders, plus 2 rear, any 'lost pressure', is multipled way beyond most other cars that only have total of 4 cylinders ??!! Guess where I am going? I have a 300C that has bloody brilliant brakes - rebuilt about 1982. And the flexible brake hoses were OEM, not modern day 'often not made in USA'.
There are 3 flexible/rubber hoses per Chrysler. I recently bought a 6 cylinder 1978 Honda Motorcycle - briefly fastest bike sold. But brakes were soon criticised. Locally there is a guy who knows, has ridden, near every sport/race motorcycle since. He says, brakes on CBX Honda are OK IF YOU FIT BRAIDED (stainless)  LINES instead of original flexible rubber ones. This stops lost force/application, lost due to rubber hoses swelling.
Others may remember me earlier saying I helped a friend on his '60 Imperial Convert - all new brakes, but at the time, the only way could get good pedal, was when we clamped off flexible front brake hoses - so is my Honda CBX loving 'guru' on the right thought/track, re why so many Chrysler/Mopar brake restos disappoint - DID CHRYSLER HAVE REAL HIGH SPEC OEM FLEXIBLE HOSES  - hoses that had zero internal swelling, unlike ones now that see pedals go down alarmingly, give poor stopping power??
Another friend's '63 Imperial convert has brillian pedal, bleed up instantly after master cylinder lost fluid - looking underneath, all flexible hoses look like never changed, or if they were, it way back years ago - brakes are great from 70 mph panic test stops.
 
So over to you '300 twin piston brakes experts' -  does the fact that in having to apply/move 6 cylinders in stead of usual 4, make 'zero swelling' flexible hoses super criticial/essential??!!  - (a) can my 300Cs excellent brakes only be explained due to OEM style 'non swelling' flexible hoses, and (b) have any overseas/US 300 owners tried braided stainless flexible hoses before going to disc brake conversions in despair?
(These 300 brakes were not written up as useless/hopeless new, and magazine road testers in those days drove in 'near speed limitless' days then !!??)
Does anyone know a brake hose manufacturer that can throw more light on the topic?
 
Christopher in Australia 
Local TV tonight warned viewers to expect gas prices for Easter to bo over $8 a gal for premium - and this for a country where a drive to any other nearest major City is usually 450-600 miles.
Got colour/paint back on my driver 300C yesterday - questions I asked re repaintiing it have following answers (1) OEM aerial has rubber type top piece that has hidden threaded nut under it (2) fuzzies that sit against side window glass are retained by metal spring clips that go into matched rectangular slots (that have rounded ends) - not sure yet if exact same fuzzies with exact same spaced clips are available.
 
AND FINAL NOTE FOR 300C/D restorers/users - my 300C rear side windows that were near totally seized, non 'up or down' without help  -- PROBLEM WAS NOT POWER MOTOR OR GEARBOX - LUBE THE TWO RUNNERS, AND ALSO LUBE THE SLOT TYPE CENTRE LOCATER, RUNNER. Manually work/help glass up and down maybe 10-20 times, and now they go up and down like supercharged - amazing. 
 
Fixed in about 15 mins once side trims removed so could put lube on runners wherever one can reach when in up and down positions to get the most on everywhere
 



To: cv300g@xxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; larry@xxxxxxxxxx
From: henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:06:23 +1000
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 1958 300D Brake shoe lining


  



Note that for the 57 models, the front brakes have two leading shoes. That is, both get pulled into the drum with the car going forward. It doesn?t matter that one is upside down. The rear has leading and trailing shoes. This gives more braking torque on the front than rear, as it is needed. Later cars with leading/trailing shoes on the front and rear generally used different sized wheel cylinders (or drums) to give the necessary brake balance. Also note the 57 Chrysler workshop manual clearly shoes all shoes front and rear have a full length lining. You could probably get away with a shorter lining on the rear of the rear brake but I wouldn?t do that on the front as they may get hot at different rates leading to earlier fade. Suggest you look up a 58 manual to check.

Regards

Henry

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charlie V
Sent: Wednesday, 21 March 2012 6:20 AM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Larry Jabin
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 1958 300D Brake shoe lining

Not sure if 1958 shoes are any different but whenever I purchased brakes shoes the set usually had two shoes with the lining on the Whole shoe and it also had two shoes with the lining ending an inch or so before each end of the shoe.

The shoe with the shorter lining goes on the front half and the shoe that has Full lining goes on the rear half. I did an internet search to verify this and it's shown below.

Where does the bigger size brake shoe go front or rear in drum?

The smaller shoe should go on the front. The larger shoe should go to the rear, but not because of why you might think! 

When the brakes are applied the front shoe tries to jam itself into the brake drum. It is that front cohesive part that has the strongest braking force - pressing most-so upon the forward-facing shoe. However, even though the front shoe is where the majority of braking force is applied, it does not get the larger shoe! 

As noted, in a braking mode, the majority of the force that the decelerating vehicle applies to the brake shoes is applied against the forward shoe by the forward-most area of the inner brake drum, this makes the forward shoe the stronger, braking-wise. To help even things out, the rear secondary shoe is designed to be larger, to more equally match the braking power of the smaller, but more powerful front primary shoe.
Ergo: The proper place for the larger shoe is to the rear.

Lion Charlie Valentine
300G, 1962 300 Sport Convertible 

--- On Sun, 3/18/12, Larry Jabin <larry@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:larry%40pwbsfo.com> > wrote:

From: Larry Jabin <larry@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:larry%40pwbsfo.com> >
Subject: [Chrysler300] 1958 300D Brake shoe lining
To: "Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> " <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> >
Date: Sunday, March 18, 2012, 12:37 PM

Could someone tell me when relining the brake Shoes

Should the lining cover the whole shoe?

The reason I ask I,s I have purchased re-lined shoes from different suppliers

>From one supplier the lining covers the shoes completely & the other there is almost an inch at each end with no lining

Thanks

Larry Jabin

Larry@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Larry%40pwbsfo.com> <mailto:Larry@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Larry%40pwbsfo.com> >

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