A few quick thoughts 1) The selling price at auction of a letter car (or any car) will depend on the condition of the car, the marketplace conditions and the presence or absence of the right bidders at that point in time. 2) I see three types of buyers at auction IMO that results in widely variable bids for a given vehicle a. The collector - buys more on emotion, more interested in the right car than the right price, goal is enjoyment, cherishes it as a family heirloom, may assign a name and gender to the vehicle b. The investor - buys with little or no emotion, focus is on the right price. Goal is long term capital appreciation. Vehicle may sit in a warehouse or museum and never get driven c. The dealer or flipper - buys anything they think they can make a quick buck on. Example would be the red E that sold at Mecum Des Moines in July, now on ebay by a dealer out of St. Louis at an 80% markup in price 3) Values on letter cars have been strong at some auctions this year (e.g RM Amelia Island D 'vert Sold for $203k) and weaker at some. Prices generally seem a bit depressed for well restored examples evidenced at auction and on ebay Letter cars went up when Mopar muscle (e.g. Hemi Cudas) went up to the stratosphere; a correction was probably due. Hemi Cudas are still way down from four years ago; letter cars less so but still down from the Barrett-Jackson euphoria of 2006-07. IMO, this is the reason more than the economy. 4) Nothing beats a great pair of fins. Finnned Mopars are hot (e.g. '58 DeSoto Adventurer fuelie convert at Mecum Monterey no sale at $375k). Finned Imperials have gone way up in the last four years, starting with well resorted 'verts and trickling down to 4 door models. Some have doubled in value. H, J, K, and L's are superb automobiles that are still relative bargains. Carl Bilter 300J (a great rare letter that hasn't gone through the roof in price) in rainy Iowa _____ From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of christopher beilby Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:21 AM To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [Chrysler300] 300/other values after latest US Auctions? Below follows my thoughts re the recent US Car Auction Results - hit delete now if not interested, others add comment/rebuttal if they wish. Only a few mixed comments on the site, after the most recent Monterey Auctions held by a few of the bigger, more known, US Auction Houses, such as Mecum, Gooding, and RM. And of most comment 'pre auctions', was the 1960 300F Daytona Flying Mile car, that Mecum had at their auction, it I believe not selling under the hammer, at around the $300k mark. Yet at Mecum's same auction, a 1960s Riva wooden speedboat sold, at near same figure. And the Riva made near same money, as what many might think was two more desirable/powerful wooden hull boats? And so this made me think, that maybe people with that sort of money, put using the boat they used a a more daily plaything, status symbol, up there as equal to, or more desirable, that having a less useable but better/rarer more historic boat ??! The Riva could be used near daily on Lake Tahoe, and it would be a real visible status symbol - like who else has/had one? Money can buy a flash new plastic boat, but money could not as easy buy another such quality Riva?! And so this comes back to what are our 300s worth, and what is the future? And it is only if one also/then goes to RM's Monterey Auction results, one see a way clearer picture - 'probability', as to what has happened car values wise 'POST GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS'. '33 V12 Auburn Convert Sedan $203k, '58 Dual Ghia $159k, '49 Chrysler T&C convert $110k, '69 427 Cobra $700k, etc etc - real collectible cars of known stature over years, all selling maybe around old days prices. We may love our 300s, but I for one would not kick out that splendid looking V12 Auburn if it in my garage/collection? A pink metallic '60 Imperial ended at $90k (color may have put some off?!), a '58 300D in special order blue metallic - and supposed near best of show resto quality - made $82.5k. That would seem reasonable - cheaper likely than replacing such a rare 300D, but not a give away price? On that basis a real near show quality 300C/D coupe should be worth $70-75k - is that about correct value?! A Tucker - $1.1million !?? - you decide, that bit hard for me/now. The likely world's oldest surviving Ford - 1903 - made $325k - and when you also read it being ordered as a 'near totally cash ran out' Ford about to fold as monies ran out before ever starting Production, and this order with two others prevented that, plus it wholly known history, thru only a few owners since 1903, may make that seem too cheap??! Ferrari - multiple early one ones, of usual most sought models/years, but a standout was a magnificent known provenance, one of only 34, 400hp SuperAmericas, with stunning quality panel lines and paint etc - made mega $$$milions. Plus other rare cars made over million mark each - go to their Auction Results website, read the pages list - they have photos/history/prices. A truly worldclass listing - maybe the Daytona 300F would have been better here?! And yet it is another RM Auction Ford that gives a clue to why the 300F likely ended around $300k, despite it seemingly/clearly a car that ticked many buyers buttons/boxes. Just as the Daytona 300F was a special build car to win Daytona - has likely also survived as the best of the best of 1960 300F specials?! - never mind it only such low miles for any 300F, unrestored ever and not needing it?! The RM Ford? - In 1957, the last year Manufacturers were allowed to race (themselves), Ford built 2 Daytona Special Tbirds. One used a big cube Lincoln Motor, the other a race 312 - both had two motor options, the small one was either blown or injected. Both cars were virtually custom alloy paneled TBirds, yet race cars under that skin, and costing was admitted as much as any Ferrari Supramerica to build - at Daytona 1957 both ran near never rivalled Factory speeds - the small cube car smashed records. It is the only survivor, it like the 300F, is today back in original Daytona Race condition, fully documented history - it known by the named "Battlebird". Yet it (only?!) sold for $275k. Near same price as Daytona 300F!! So two different Auction Houses, both with cream of cream colllector cars of amazing diversity/appeals, and yet both historic racers finish seemingly at a price you could not replace their history with??! To my knowledge, Ford never returned to Daytona Beach with such a car ever again - so it like the Daytona 300F, it the ultimate Factory Daytona Racer ever re Fords?! So what does all what I have written here likely mean for 300 values, now and in the future? My personal views, plus how history has seen car values rise. 1) the name, and having a 'magical elusive mystic' helps, egs, - Ferrari, sort of self explanatory (even though most grossly over-rated?)!, Tucker - beats me, but it known today way beyond numbers ever produced for sure, and re 'mystique', especially re the one that we could never own, as it was killed before birth?! 2) high horsepower, coupled with class and prestige - adds a fair bit, and obviously also a nice classy interior is way better/nicer to enjoy that high speed driving? 3) sexual/sensual looks/appeal - usually vital if chasing mega bucks. 4) rarity and known history/restoration quality. So if 300 values are holding up OK 'post GFC' - as long as one does not want a rushed sale where there might only be 'bargain taker likely resellers' ? - then the ones with the most glamour - fins, chrome, flash/classy knockout interiors and hemis, and 'cross ram multiple everythings' - are likely to be the ones to move more upwards when and if things ever recover?! And lastely to those rarest of rare special performance/history 300s - who knows?! It has only taken the Ferrari Superamericas, the few Daytona Cobras, the '30s supercharged 8 cylinder Alfas, etc - only a few years to go from hundreds of $$$thousands, to now nearing regularly low millions to nearing ten $$$$millions. But my feeling is would that ever happen to a GM, Ford, Chrysler production based car?! - the open Custom bodied top of the line Cadillac, Imperial, Packard, Duesenbergs of the 30s may be the ones that go nearest to going into 7 figure sums first. But in the next weeks, maybe that Daytona 300F may enter that 7 figure sales figure league? And to that 1903 Ford - if it was not Ford who bought it, my guess if it comes on the market, just it's history re how it saved Henry Ford such that he ever delivered his first Ford, without anything else re the amazing car, should spell nothing below any 7 figure sum is ever likely again?! Christopher Beilby, in a cold wet showerey southern Australia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To send a message to this group, send an email to: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/Yahoo! 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