Re: [Chrysler300] Paint advice

["Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxx>]

Beyond the basics of straightening and removing all dents the following MUST
be done.

1. Remove all the microscopic pits that crater the surface(especially that
stainless that faces forward like the windshield molding) that are caused by
dust and sand. These are just like the craters on the moon and are removed
with intensive hand sanding using 400 to 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. You
will Never get them out with just buffing and using compounds. You will
also be amazed at just how difficult these little pits can be to totally
remove.

2. The same applies to all the thousands of accumulated scratches that have
built up over the years. I am still stunned at how hard stainless is(you
will find this as you are sanding it) and yet how easily and mysteriously it
can get all these scratches.

3. I then used a 10 or 12 inch sisal wheel(I use with the dark
brown(emery) polishing compound to break the what I called the FILM on the
stainless until I get a nice cross hatch pattern(kinda like the interior of
a motor cylinder in prepping for new rings). I also run 2 wheels in
tandem(makes for a wider polishing surface, therefore faster) for all my
work. You must be somewhat knowledgeable and very careful when doing this
as it is very easy to snag a part and send it flying. There is a technique
that you will eventually learn(probably the hard way) how to avoid this.
Basically you use the wheel so that it is always running off the edge of the
part in question and not against it where you can snag an edge.

4. After getting this type of finish(with no evidence of scratches or
pits/craters when held at different angles under bright lights or in the
sun) I used the green bars with various buffing wheels. One that I really
liked is what I called the flapper wheel( again in tandem ,very noisy but
does an excellent job). This takes the cross hatch off and will take you up
through various levels of polishing using softer wheels until all is smooth
and a deep final polish.

5. Some folks I guess will use the white compound. I found my best success
was with the green stainless compounds.

You probably should buy a good Baldor Buffer(I have a 1 hp one) with their
heavy cast iron stand. You can get from Eastwood. I do not recommend
Eastwood for their polishing wheels and compounds. You can do better on
certain websites for quality and pricing that cater to this business. Do a
Google search on stainless polishing supplies.

6. Never go to the next step in polishing until you are positive that all
prior steps are done to perfection. Otherwise you will spend your time on
the final polish and see that you need to go back a couple of steps to get
that last scratch or pit out. Again for the most part they will not come
out with just buffing.

Buy a good book on the process. They can be found on Amazon and other
places.

7. Set up a TV or Radio or CD player in your garage and prepare for many
hours of hand sanding. Then set up your buffer outside on a large piece of
cardboard(protects the driveway from compounds and such(which you can then
just dump in to your trash) and also keeps the buffer standing from dancing
around). In the garage you will get too much noise, too much stuff to
breath, to much risk from flying parts(to avoid this you will have to learn
the hard way). I also wore cordless head phones to protect my ears and to
listen to music while working. Also be sure to wear a full face mask and an
apron of some sort. Also heavy gloves and a long sleeved shirt with nothing
loose that can tangle. Again you must be very careful, no day dreaming or
looking up as you are polishing to see who is driving that car past your
home.

8. Be very careful when reinstalling on your car as you can screw up easily
some of your fine work on the stainless or damage the paint on the auto.

I am going to post this to our listsrv at many may be interested and others
may have more pointers to give.

Jim Faber also sent me a missive axing if the fellow who had done the bum
job for me advertised in our publication. Fortunately the answer is no, but
if you go to car shows, take a look at some of the beautiful cars and then
take a careful look at the stainless jobs. There is a lot of poor work out
there that someone is paying a lot of money for, so always ask for a sample
of their work on one of your crummier pieces before committing to them.

This is just an overview. You will learn much as you go along. You will
have a great since of satisfaction when done as no longer will you be
dependant on others for this valuable skill and often you will do a better
job then what you paid someone else to do in the past.

Roger Schaaf
300 B Calif
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ajp002@xxxx>
To: "Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Paint advice


> Roger,
>
> What do you have to do to properly prepare stainless trim for polishing?
>
> Thanks, Jim
>
> > You are correct. It is a matter of semantics. Myself and some that I
> > know refer to any sanding after painting as color sanding to differ from
> > sanding in preparation for painting.
> >
> > The clear coat applied after the color coat will tend to fill all the
> > orange peel from the color coat. I however do know that in the case of
> > one car that I had painted, that the painter also did sand the base
coat.
> > The car came out beautifully and was final clear coat sanded to give the
> > smoothness and depth of a fine lacquer job(this look on poly urethane
> > paint is very hard to achieve as when polished they appear to me to have
a
> > certain "wavy not totally flat" characteristic that lacquer usually did
> > not).
> >
> > My concern was more directed to those who paint and do not sand at
> > all(Mercedes and BMW?) and somehow think that heavy work with a buffer
and
> > rubbing compound is going to give a show finish. This will never happen
> > unless the painter can apply a perfectly flat clear coat(this usually
will
> > not happen either).
> >
> > Where I also see a similar situation is where way too often you will see
> > polished stainless, but it still looks horrible, but it is shiny. This
is
> > because proper prep work(and on stainless this is very labor intensive)
is
> > not done competently before final polishing.
> >
> > Incidentally I am not a painter(I did spend a hundred to 200 hours
> > polishing the stainless on my B after having paid some dope a lot to do
it
> > when the car was first restored), I am just reporting what I have
> > observed over the years, much of it not good.
> >
> > Roger Schaaf
> > 300 B Calif
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Russ Vaughan
> > To: Roger Schaaf
> > Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Paint advice
> >
> >
> > Hi Roger,
> >
> > Reading your post, it seems like we have different definitions of
"color
> > sanding" . The basecoat on a 2-stage dries to a matte finish. any
> > gloss comes from the clearcoat.
> > I guess if you make a big mistake and get orange peel or a run in the
> > basecoat, you would have to sand it down, but then, unless you were
> > extremely lucky, you would need to reapply with more base. The proper
> > thickness of the color coat on a 2 stage is 1.0 mil or less. That's not
> > a lot of base to sand compared to the 2.5 mil or so on a single stage.
> > To sand the body, you need to pull the car out of the spray booth, which
> > invites dust and dirt everywhere else. The tech manual for the paint I
> > use recommends "clearcoat (base) as soon as possible - after proper
> > flash off (about 10 minutes) - to minimize dirt and other substances
> > landing on basecoat" . In my experience, the "bumps and valleys" come
> > from the clear coat, not the base.. Clear goes on to a thickness of 2.5
> > mils or so and that you DO sand. Sanding a clearcoat is not considered
> > "color sanding", at least in my circles.
> >
> > You can get quite a finish with a quality finish sander like
> > Dynabrade or National Detroit. I have seen Mirka Abralon (2000 and
> > 4000) bring up a spectacular finish using one of those sanders - on
> > clear.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Roger Schaaf <obiwan10@xxxx> wrote:
> > Some folks color sand their 2 stage paint. Apparently Mercedes and
BMW
> > do
> > not. This is probably why their paint jobs look so crummy, as do
most
> > new
> > car finishes, I do give Jaguar and Lexus somewhat a pass on this as
> > they
> > apparently do a fairly good job without color sanding or possibly
they
> > do
> > some before shipping the cars to us. There are more bumps and
> > valleys(orange peel) then in the Rockies. Most new car finishes look
> > like we
> > used to say about Platte River back in Nebraska where I am from. A
> > mile
> > wide and an inch deep.
> >
> > None of the manufacturers that I know of sand their paint jobs,
unless
> > there is a flaw, then only the flaw is addressed.
> >
> > If you are doing a darker color(red, black(especially black), blue,
> > green
> > like the 57's) I would suggest color sanding or the finish may be
> > shiny but
> > that is about all. In very strong fact I would have any excellent
> > quality
> > paint job color sanded thoroughly.
> >
> > I assume you are talking about single stage paint, not two stage.
> >
> > Will be the difference between a Miracle job and a job that you will
> > do you
> > and your painter proud.
> >
> > I purchased a kit sometime back(about 2 or 3 hundred dollars) that
> > included
> > a high quality air powered dual action palm held sander and sanding
> > disks
> > from 1000 to 3000 grit. I would recommend such a tool as a
tremendous
> > aid
> > to a nice finish.
> >
> > Roger Schaaf
> > 300 B Calif
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Russ Vaughan"
> > To: ;
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Paint advice
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Most bodymen I know use 3M D.A.R.T tape. Round foam tape 1/2" or
> > 3/4"
> > diameter that covers the gaps and keeps the jambs clean and leaves
no
> > tape
> > line. Whatever works I guess, but I've never seen a vehicle's jambs
> > painted
> > last. How would you paint the parts you can't get at like inner
> > fenders,
> > under hinges, etc? Also, since at least 80% of the cars painted
today
> > are
> > two stage( base coat - clear coat) and you don't color sand two
stage,
> > they
> > would have to jamb first. I would think people just don't change
their
> > methods when doing an occasional single stage paint job.
> > >
> > > Just another point of view
> > >
> > > Russ Vaughan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > dan300f@xxxx wrote:
> > > Hi all:
> > >
> > > Just to get my 2 cents worth in here, I paint the door jambs,
etc.,
> > last.
> > If
> > > they are painted first, then when the body is sprayed, the
overspray
> > gets
> > on
> > > the fresh paint on these areas. If painted last, then the
overspray
> > gets
> > on
> > > the body which will be color sanded anyway. No use making more
work
> > for
> > one's
> > > self.
> > >
> > > Dan Reitz
> > > Northridge, CA
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
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