Re: [Chrysler300] Digest Number 1213

[steve fogel <sfogel20001@xxxxxxxxx>]

Don't believe the propaganda about "greatly improved air quality" in California.....LA and Bakersfield routinely make the "dirtiest air" list every year......LA has the dirtiest air, and the highest concentration of do-gooders who lobby for "clean air".....also, our gasoline prices are 40 cents higher than every other state, due to the strict standards and cleaner blends demanded by the environmentalists.......also, in my city, Bakersfield, they have "air quality monitors" who drive around on "no burn" days dictated by the government and point infrared monitors at your chimney, to see if you're burning an "illegal" log fire.....they also take photographs through people's windows to document the presence of a fire in the fireplace (and this from the people who want to keep the government out of your business)......I like clean air too, but I don't want to live in a totalitarian state......driving my new Chrysler 300 puts me in a better mood.....

Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Causion
From: Ray Jones 
2. Gas chemistry
From: "L.Andrew Jugle" 
3. Re: Gas chemistry
From: Ray Jones 
4. Re: Gas chemistry
From: 
5. Re: Causion
From: "Roger Schaaf" 
6. Re: Gas chemistry
From: "Roger Schaaf" 
7. Re: Causion
From: Ray Jones 
8. Re: Gas chemistry
From: "Roger Schaaf" 
9. Re: Balancing Act
From: "Roger Schaaf" 
10. Balancing Act
From: Rich Barber 
11. 300E convertible
From: John Hertog 
12. Re: Gas chemistry
From: mr-320@xxxxxxxxx
13. Tire Balance
From: Hari Walner 
14. Floor Pan for '61 G
From: "Knutsen.Mark" 
15. Re: Re: Balancing Act
From: "Warren Anderson" 
16. Re: Floor Pan for '61 G
From: moparpjf@xxxxxxx
17. RE: Floor Pan for '61 G
From: "Lee Meyer" 
18. Re: Tire Balance
From: "Warren Anderson" 
19. Fw: Re: Balancing Act
From: Marshall R Larson 
20. Re: Balancing Act
From: Ray Jones 
21. Re: Re: Balancing Act
From: dan300f@xxxxxxx
22. Re: Intake Manifold
From: Ray Jones 
23. RE: Gas Chemistry
From: "Bob Jasinski" 
24. link to 300E pix
From: John Hertog 
25. Re: Spring Meet Airports?
From: GERALD OLSON 


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1 
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:44:18 -0600
From: Ray Jones 
Subject: Re: Causion

There were 2 basic problems with this tire story.
First and foremost, THEY did NOT sell the tires. (So don't care much)
Secondly, anybody working there for minimum wage isn't that interested 
in mounting "Problem" tires, not to mention "tubes". What the heck 
are they?. Most kids have never seen them.

And if they didn't know how to balance Statically (just measure the 
wheel and push some buttons on the Balancer), they don't need to work 
on my tires.

Before retiring, I worked at an Acura dealer and was the NSX tech. Had 
to mount and balance tires on them and each tire was different. Fronts 
and Backs and Lefts and Rights. You just had to focus!
I always spun the bare rim first and marked it's heavy spot, if any. 
Then when balancing the tire/rim assembly, if the heavy spot was near 
where the rims heavy spot was, I broke it down and shifted the tire 
around the rim to get a better (less or no weight) balance.

And when balancing, I hid stick-on weights behind the webs, almost 
dynamic balancing. I deal now with a "good ol' boy" Rural shop, and 
they mount everything from 8" wheelbarrow tires to 38" Heavy equipment 
tires. Some with tubes and tread liners. They also have a pipe bender 
and custom make duals....you ought to hear my Dakota!

Ray

It's getting time for y'all to be polishing up your rides for the 
Spring Meet! Be there, or be Square! Ray Jones

On Jan 4, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Warren Anderson wrote:

>
>
>
>>
>> A couple of years ago I replaced my bias Remington's with Diamondback
>> radials(had to do this twice as on the first set the whitewalls all 
>> turned
>> brown). I had ordered them by phone and when they arrived by UPS, I 
>> threw
>> them in my B and headed for the local tire store to have them mounted.
> Mind
>> you this was a store called Wheel Works and they were one of many 
>> stores
> of
>> a large chain of tire stores who you would assume would know something
> about
>> tires and TUBES.
>
>
> We have seen a number of serious problems generated by tire shops. Big 
> chain
> tire shops and local specialists. One common big mistake they make is 
> in the
> use of air tools to reach final wheel fastener torque. With or without
> 'Torque Sticks', air wrenches on street driven vehicles cause a lot of
> problems. I did notice that the Flagstaff Sam's Club tire shop uses 
> manual
> torque wrenches.
>
> A rotating static balance can be accomplished with weights in only one
> plain. The dynamic balance is only accomplished with wheel weights in 
> two
> planes (when weights are required).
>
> It is good practice to powder (talc and I have used baby powder when I 
> did
> not have tire talc) the inside of tires when tubes are used. Always 
> inflate
> fully and deflate then reinflate to road use pressure.
>
> Tire shops that deal with passenger car tires and truck tires should 
> have
> people that can deal with tube tires in an expert manner.
>
> We are not a tire shop but do work with tires like the ones on a local 
> fleet
> of Hummers http://hummeraffair.com/. The tires are bias ply things from
> Mickey Thompson as all radial tire production is supposedly going to 
> Iraq.
> Run flats for these vehicles are GREASE lubricated between the outer 
> and
> inners. These we will not be working with; one very good man, one 
> hard, full
> day to change out four tires we have been told.
>
> Warren Anderson
> Sedona,AZ
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2 
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 22:59:00 -0000
From: "L.Andrew Jugle" 
Subject: Gas chemistry


Isn't MTBE Methyl Tert-Butyl Ethanol???The secret is to get as many 
complex bonds to condition the fuel rather than explode. Tetra Ethyl 
Lead was an additive that slowed combustion allowing short chain 
hydrocarbons in higher compression fuel mixes without pre-detonating 
allowing longer chain hydrocarbons to burn at same time. TEL helped 
stabilize cracked long chains in synthetic fuels by giving longer 
shelf life...about two weeks!!

Research numbers are results of comparing fuel explosions in 
comparison to pure octane (thought to be the ultimate "pure fuel" 
hydrocarbon). The single cylinder "engine" is fired and height of 
free piston determines the rating as compared to octane reading 
as "100". Since the tree huggers could not fathom the 
concept "octane rating" is now legislated. Try as they might, the 
environmentalists cannot seem to re-write the laws of thermodynamics.

The primary difference of classic 60's Sunoco 260 and 
todays "Premium" is that modified long chain hydrocarbons aren't 
there. The fuel physically has less weight. More heat energy is 
produced and lost to engine and less energy is transffered to pistons.

Miles per gallon have been sacrificed to butterfly breath.

L. Andrew Jugle, Elmhurst,IL.







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3 
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:26:18 -0600
From: Ray Jones 
Subject: Re: Gas chemistry

The real secret is that the Tree Huggers and other environmental groups 
consist of 3 wacky Scientists , and thousands of rumor loving idiots. 
All with good intentions, of course.
For 20 years we've had constant improvement in Auto emissions, until 
cars almost run on smog, but they still want more. It all hides the 
truth that the biggest producers are the power plants and other big 
industry. They, unlike you and me, contribute heavily to the political 
campaigns and there-by get waivers. Our gas just goes up.
A few years ago, Readers Digest had a story about power companies that 
sold unused emission credits. If they didn't produce a certain 
chemical in their exhaust, they could sell that to a plant that 
produced too much of that chemical, there-by averaging the emissions. 
This was also the basis of the CA junker buying campaign. Give you some 
money for your old broke car and get credit for the inflated amounts of 
emissions not produced by the car for the next 10 years. Then they just 
gave the Gov the credits instead of fixing their emission problem.
Sort of like Social Security, it's not going to run out of money, there 
is none, just IOU's for the money the Gov has spent for the last 30 
years.

Ray


It's getting time for y'all to be polishing up your rides for the 
Spring Meet! Be there, or be Square! Ray

On Jan 4, 2005, at 4:59 PM, L.Andrew Jugle wrote:

>
> Isn't MTBE Methyl Tert-Butyl Ethanol???The secret is to get as many
> complex bonds to condition the fuel rather than explode. Tetra Ethyl
> Lead was an additive that slowed combustion allowing short chain
> hydrocarbons in higher compression fuel mixes without pre-detonating
> allowing longer chain hydrocarbons to burn at same time.  TEL helped
> stabilize cracked long chains in synthetic fuels by giving longer
> shelf life...about two weeks!!
>
> Research numbers are results of comparing fuel explosions in
> comparison to pure octane (thought to be the ultimate "pure fuel"
> hydrocarbon). The single cylinder "engine" is fired and height of
> free piston determines the rating as compared to octane reading
> as "100".   Since the tree huggers could not fathom the
> concept "octane rating" is now legislated.  Try as they might, the
> environmentalists cannot seem to re-write the laws of thermodynamics.
>
> The primary difference of classic 60's Sunoco 260 and
> todays "Premium" is that modified long chain hydrocarbons aren't
> there. The fuel physically has less weight. More heat energy is
> produced and lost to engine and less energy is transffered to pistons.
>
> Miles per gallon have been sacrificed to butterfly breath.
>
> L. Andrew Jugle, Elmhurst,IL.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go 
> tohttp://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> ? To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/
>  
> ? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>  
> ? Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4 
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:12:01 -0500
From: 
Subject: Re: Gas chemistry

Ray, I don' t know where you live, but it probably isn't California. Those of us who live here are grateful for the substantial improvement in air quality over the last 20 years. Despite enormous growth and vehicle miles travelled, air quality has steadily improved. As a person who is involved in setting vehicle tailpipe standards, all I can say about your comments is that you do not have your facts right, either about scrappage or stationary source emissions or credit programs. I won't go into the details because it rarely helps when someone has their mind made up. Not everyone is as stupid as you might think. Nor is government as corrupt as you suggest. Those of us in this field are doing all we can to improve air quality in an open deliberative process. Perhaps on to other topics more germane to the purpose of this board.
Steve Albu

---- Ray Jones wrote: 
> 
> The real secret is that the Tree Huggers and other environmental groups 
> consist of 3 wacky Scientists , and thousands of rumor loving idiots. 
> All with good intentions, of course.
> For 20 years we've had constant improvement in Auto emissions, until 
> cars almost run on smog, but they still want more. It all hides the 
> truth that the biggest producers are the power plants and other big 
> industry. They, unlike you and me, contribute heavily to the political 
> campaigns and there-by get waivers. Our gas just goes up.
> A few years ago, Readers Digest had a story about power companies that 
> sold unused emission credits. If they didn't produce a certain 
> chemical in their exhaust, they could sell that to a plant that 
> produced too much of that chemical, there-by averaging the emissions. 
> This was also the basis of the CA junker buying campaign. Give you some 
> money for your old broke car and get credit for the inflated amounts of 
> emissions not produced by the car for the next 10 years. Then they just 
> gave the Gov the credits instead of fixing their emission problem.
> Sort of like Social Security, it's not going to run out of money, there 
> is none, just IOU's for the money the Gov has spent for the last 30 
> years.
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> It's getting time for y'all to be polishing up your rides for the 
> Spring Meet! Be there, or be Square! Ray
> 
> On Jan 4, 2005, at 4:59 PM, L.Andrew Jugle wrote:
> 
> >
> > Isn't MTBE Methyl Tert-Butyl Ethanol???The secret is to get as many
> > complex bonds to condition the fuel rather than explode. Tetra Ethyl
> > Lead was an additive that slowed combustion allowing short chain
> > hydrocarbons in higher compression fuel mixes without pre-detonating
> > allowing longer chain hydrocarbons to burn at same time.  TEL helped
> > stabilize cracked long chains in synthetic fuels by giving longer
> > shelf life...about two weeks!!
> >
> > Research numbers are results of comparing fuel explosions in
> > comparison to pure octane (thought to be the ultimate "pure fuel"
> > hydrocarbon). The single cylinder "engine" is fired and height of
> > free piston determines the rating as compared to octane reading
> > as "100".   Since the tree huggers could not fathom the
> > concept "octane rating" is now legislated.  Try as they might, the
> > environmentalists cannot seem to re-write the laws of thermodynamics.
> >
> > The primary difference of classic 60's Sunoco 260 and
> > todays "Premium" is that modified long chain hydrocarbons aren't
> > there. The fuel physically has less weight. More heat energy is
> > produced and lost to engine and less energy is transffered to pistons.
> >
> > Miles per gallon have been sacrificed to butterfly breath.
> >
> > L. Andrew Jugle, Elmhurst,IL.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> > Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > For list server instructions, go 
> > tohttp://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > Â? To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/
> > Â 
> > Â? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Â 
> > Â? Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> > 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5 
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 20:24:33 -0800
From: "Roger Schaaf" 
Subject: Re: Causion

14.00 per hour at this store for these guys. You are correct that I did
not buy the tires there as they do not sell Diamondbacks, however have
purchased 6 new sets of tires from these guys the past 4 years. My family
members and neighbors have also given their business to these folks. The
last set cost me 280.00 per tire for my XJR Jag(18 inch wheels). So I am
not just an average rumdum customer who buys his tires elsewhere at a cheap
price and have someone else mount them just to save a few bucks. My real
point was that never trust anyone to mount your tires if you are not there
to watch and guide. In fact I hate to have any work of any kind done on my
cars or motorcycles by any shop where I can not watch the action. As most
of us know and can all relate tales of woe, a large percentage of them are
totally incompetent, will cheat you royally when given the opportunity, sell
you much of what you do not need at grossly inflated labor charges(perhaps
you all have not heard of the so called "flat rate scheme" so popular in
California. I know there are many honest competent shops out there, but
picking the pepper out of the flyspecks is about as hard as buying the right
stocks that will be going up and not be going down. So I do most all of my
own work and service where possible. I have the same feeling when eating in
restaurants where I cannot see what is going on in the kitchen. Would
probably really give me a good case of religion if I did however.

Taping or gluing weights on the insides of the wheels is what I was
suggesting as a method to almost get a good dynamic balance in the hands of
a competent tire guy using a decent balancer. Most guys either cannot or
will not take the time(preferring to just pound a bunch of weights on the
outside of your multi-hundred dollar aluminum or wire wheels).

Take a look at the beat up edges of some of the aluminum wheels that you
will see on late model cars. Much of what you see could be curb rash, but a
large percentage of it, is the result of mounting/dismounting of tires using
machines not designed to protect these wheels from damage and or poorly
trained technicians who should be doing some other line of work. Someone
else noted too, those who just "cinch" them up with their 400 ft pound air
wrench, thereby stripping threads or warping hubs and wheels. Watch the
action when they remove your lug bolts with their 400 pound air wrench when
they are doing your reverse threads on your 300.

Does all this make anyone else want to watch next time you get your tires
mounted at Costco?

Roger Schaaf
300 B Calif
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Jones" 
To: "Warren Anderson" 
Cc: "Listserver" ;
; "Roger Schaaf" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Causion


> There were 2 basic problems with this tire story.
> First and foremost, THEY did NOT sell the tires. (So don't care much)
> Secondly, anybody working there for minimum wage isn't that interested
> in mounting "Problem" tires, not to mention "tubes". What the heck
> are they?. Most kids have never seen them.
>
> And if they didn't know how to balance Statically (just measure the
> wheel and push some buttons on the Balancer), they don't need to work
> on my tires.
>
> Before retiring, I worked at an Acura dealer and was the NSX tech. Had
> to mount and balance tires on them and each tire was different. Fronts
> and Backs and Lefts and Rights. You just had to focus!
> I always spun the bare rim first and marked it's heavy spot, if any.
> Then when balancing the tire/rim assembly, if the heavy spot was near
> where the rims heavy spot was, I broke it down and shifted the tire
> around the rim to get a better (less or no weight) balance.
>
> And when balancing, I hid stick-on weights behind the webs, almost
> dynamic balancing. I deal now with a "good ol' boy" Rural shop, and
> they mount everything from 8" wheelbarrow tires to 38" Heavy equipment
> tires. Some with tubes and tread liners. They also have a pipe bender
> and custom make duals....you ought to hear my Dakota!

=== message truncated ===


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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