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------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. 1963 red convertible
From: "gary luedtke" <poppers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
2. FW: looking for email
From: " Jim McMullan" <macthehammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
3. In Defense of Galen Govier
From: RAKFAR@xxxxxxx
4. Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
From: Crewzah@xxxxxxx
5. Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
From: "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxx>
6. Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
From: G Barker <gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
7. New Yorker Salon
From: "John Peabody" <Jpeabo@xxxxxxx>
8. Re: New Yorker Salon
From: Herman 'Hemi' Meiners <herman440@xxxxxxxxx>
9. More on VIN De-coder scam on e-Bay.
From: "David Agnew" <Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx>
10. Walter P. Chrysler Museum, finally made it.
From: lajugle@xxxxxxxx
11. (no subject)
From: MJMLandDev@xxxxxxx
12. Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
From: mr-320@xxxxxxxxx
13. Reminder - listserver rules
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
14. Re: Reminder - listserver rules
From: "Laurence G. Johnson" <laurence_g_johnson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
15. Re: More on VIN De-coder scam on e-Bay.
From: "Owen & Jo Grigg" <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:41:34 -0500
From: "gary luedtke" <poppers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 1963 red convertible
if the owner of subject car on the west coast of florida,
which i've seen drive past me while i've played shuffleboard
in lakewood village in punta gorda,
is a list member, please respond to me.
i have a '63 new yorker salon.
we should talk.
gary luedtke
fort lauderdale
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:9:7 -0800
From: " Jim McMullan" <macthehammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: FW: looking for email
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
McMullan
To: Chrysler300
Sent: 11/24/2001 12:06:36 PM
Subject: looking for email
Does Dean L. Smith who ran a 300 G in the silver state classic have a E
mail address? See www.silverstate
classic.com/home.hml
---
--- macthehammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
---
--- macthehammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:02:17 EST
From: RAKFAR@xxxxxxx
Subject: In Defense of Galen Govier
I'd like to second the opinions of Sherwood Kahlenberg and
Laurence Johnson in support of Galen Govier. I have three or four of Govier's
little white books, and most of the information contained in them can be
found nowhere in the more than two dozen ( ! ) other Mopar books I have.
Pick up any typical Mopar magazine off the newstand, and if you
read carefully you'll discover that half or two-thirds of the featured cars
in those magazines are "clones". Now, I have nothing against clones, because
few of us can afford to pay half-a-million dollars for Don Johnson's
Hemi-Cuda convertible. If some talented person wants to put a Hemi crate
motor into a drop-top E-body and enjoy the "Don Johnson experience" for
one-tenth the price, I say have at it. But the world is full of unscrupulous
people, and too many clones have "lost" their fender tags and been fobbed off
on unsuspecting buyers with more enthusiasm than knowledge. Galen Govier has
been a major bulwark against such fraud and chicanery, and the Mopar world
should be grateful to him for this much at least.
Critics here have said he knows little about pre-'63 C-bodies.
Fine. He ADMITS he knows little about pre-'63 C-bodies. Critics have decried
his charging for his knowledge about Mopars, and should "share it freely"
with groups like this List. Right--- God forbid he should make an honest
living by providing useful information to people who need it and are willing
to pay for it! Do you people REALIZE how small, cheap, and envious you sound?
If you don't want his books, DON'T BUY THEM. If you don't want
his services, DON'T USE THEM. For all the badmouthing I've seen in here, no
one has offered a single, specific, legitmate criticism. He charges? Please.
He has no patience for timewasters and people looking for a freebie? I'm not
surprised. He didn't know about the famous 4-speed 300F's? He never claimed
to be an expert on 300's. Gentlemen, your knocks on Galen Govier all sound
like sour grapes to me.
Now, if you'll all just give me a moment... Okay, there! I've got
my special asbestos flame suit on, so I'll just stand right here and let you
flame away.
300F'ly,
Roger Karlson
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:56:31 EST
From: Crewzah@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
I also want to share my opinion, for what ever it is worth, in defense of GG.
When the original criticism of Mr. G hit our list server, I responded to to
the critic directly, but after hearing what those in our club who also have
a confliting opinion and are not afraid to share it, I thought that I would
add my support of Galen to the list and share what I happen to think with the
rest of you.
"Jeez - Ron, I always thought that it is 'the American Way' to offer one's
knowledge, be it self taught or by an institution of higher education, for
purposes of making a living. Can you say Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant ? I for
one feel Galen - (and I don't even know the gentleman) has provided a
tremendous and a very valuable service to the Mopar community. What's wrong
with getting paid for it? I, for one, wouldn't hesitate to pay for Galen's
knowledge before making what could be very expensive mistakes. And besides,
what's so condemnable about anyone making their living 'selling' their
(Mopar) knowledge to people who otherwise would have no access to the right
answers, expertise and ablility? I would love to be able to do that, but I
don't know enough.... and I have no problem admitting it. What about
George Riehl? I've know since the mid '70s. I've never heard anyone
complain about him selling his expertise. Or John Hertog, or Don Verity ? -
There a whole bunch of people in this club whose cars would be all wrong
without people like them 'selling their knowledge.' (as well as graciously
making it available on our list-server). They make their living helping
people realize their dreams.. Can you say that about what you do?
Step back, Pal - you're way out of line.."
Michael Cutler
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:26:41 -0500
From: "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
...and I thought I'd add my response to Michael's response to my original
post :
Dude -
Why don't you go back and reread my post before jumping down my throat. All
I said was that this is what he had decided to do. Did I say that was wrong
?
Galen can do whatever he wants. If this is his livelihood and he makes a
living off this, good for him.
We are all experts on our cars to one degree or another. And we can all be
paid as 'expert witnesses' based on our knowledge and years of experience
with our cars. I just object to anything that he publishes being called
'official'. We also have no way of verifying the accuracy of his research.
Ron
Michael Cutler wrote :
> I also want to share my opinion, for what ever it is worth, in defense of
GG.
> When the original criticism of Mr. G hit our list server, I responded to
to
> the critic directly, but after hearing what those in our club who also
have
> a confliting opinion and are not afraid to share it, I thought that I
would
> add my support of Galen to the list and share what I happen to think with
the
> rest of you.
>
> "Jeez - Ron, I always thought that it is 'the American Way' to offer one's
> knowledge, be it self taught or by an institution of higher education, for
etc.etc.etc.
--SNIP --
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:48:14 -0800
From: G Barker <gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
Thank you for your support....Galen Govier
RAKFAR@xxxxxxx wrote:
> I'd like to second the opinions of Sherwood Kahlenberg and
> Laurence Johnson in support of Galen Govier. I have three or four of Govier's
> little white books, and most of the information contained in them can be
> found nowhere in the more than two dozen ( ! ) other Mopar books I have.
>
> Pick up any typical Mopar magazine off the newstand, and if you
> read carefully you'll discover that half or two-thirds of the featured cars
> in those magazines are "clones". Now, I have nothing against clones, because
> few of us can afford to pay half-a-million dollars for Don Johnson's
> Hemi-Cuda convertible. If some talented person wants to put a Hemi crate
> motor into a drop-top E-body and enjoy the "Don Johnson experience" for
> one-tenth the price, I say have at it. But the world is full of unscrupulous
> people, and too many clones have "lost" their fender tags and been fobbed off
> on unsuspecting buyers with more enthusiasm than knowledge. Galen Govier has
> been a major bulwark against such fraud and chicanery, and the Mopar world
> should be grateful to him for this much at least.
>
> Critics here have said he knows little about pre-'63 C-bodies.
> Fine. He ADMITS he knows little about pre-'63 C-bodies. Critics have decried
> his charging for his knowledge about Mopars, and should "share it freely"
> with groups like this List. Right--- God forbid he should make an honest
> living by providing useful information to people who need it and are willing
> to pay for it! Do you people REALIZE how small, cheap, and envious you sound?
>
> If you don't want his books, DON'T BUY THEM. If you don't want
> his services, DON'T USE THEM. For all the badmouthing I've seen in here, no
> one has offered a single, specific, legitmate criticism. He charges? Please.
> He has no patience for timewasters and people looking for a freebie? I'm not
> surprised. He didn't know about the famous 4-speed 300F's? He never claimed
> to be an expert on 300's. Gentlemen, your knocks on Galen Govier all sound
> like sour grapes to me.
>
> Now, if you'll all just give me a moment... Okay, there! I've got
> my special asbestos flame suit on, so I'll just stand right here and let you
> flame away.
> 300F'ly,
>
> Roger Karlson
>
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:46:27 -0500
From: "John Peabody" <Jpeabo@xxxxxxx>
Subject: New Yorker Salon
Reading Gary Luedtke e-mail sparked an old memory for me. Back in 1966, I worked for a Chrysler dealer in Pittsburgh. From time to time, we would get a Salon for servicing. I was just the lot boy but I got to move these beautiful cars around. As I recall these cars had few if any options. They were loaded from the factory. Even came with reverb! My boss told me the Salon was made for the successful business or salesman who didn't want his customers to think he made to good of a living. He also said they came as a two door hard top. Can anyone confirm this last statement? I remember many more '64s than '63s. Does anyone know the totals for both years. Can anyone give us the small option list? Or list the many options that came standard on this rarely mention automobile? Thanks for your interest. John Peabody Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 02:54:36 +0100
From: Herman 'Hemi' Meiners <herman440@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: New Yorker Salon
I recently bought a '64 NY Salon.
I've never seen the up close yet because it's still in the US, and I'm
in the Netherlands.
There are some pics of it on my homepage.
I can't confirm the 2-dr version however...
I believe the only option not standard was the tilt-steeringwheel.
Herman.
The Netherlands
http://drive.to/chrysler
John Peabody wrote:
> Reading Gary Luedtke e-mail sparked an old memory for me. Back in
> 1966, I worked for a Chrysler dealer in Pittsburgh. From time to time,
> we would get a Salon for servicing. I was just the lot boy but I got
> to move these beautiful cars around. As I recall these cars had few if
> any options. They were loaded from the factory. Even came with reverb!
> My boss told me the Salon was made for the successful business or
> salesman who didn't want his customers to think he made to good of a
> living. He also said they came as a two door hard top. Can anyone
> confirm this last statement? I remember many more '64s than '63s. Does
> anyone know the totals for both years. Can anyone give us the small
> option list? Or list the many options that came standard on this
> rarely mention automobile? Thanks for your interest. John
> Peabody Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
> http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:58:58 +1300
From: "David Agnew" <Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: More on VIN De-coder scam on e-Bay.
Judge for yourself folks !!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: IBIDHIGH1965@xxxxxxx
To: Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: e-Bay #'s 597658905 and 597659286
I assure you these were original.
I get them right out of a manual I never said they were original from way back in the 60s.
That would be impossilble to find.
If you do find them then tell me where cause I am sure they will be worth more then a lousy 20 bucks on Ebay.
With over 300 possitive feedbacks and all the praise I get over the same items Like you bought and 1 person(You) have a complaint!
lets see 300-1 wow what are the odds that maybe you are the cracked one.
I will refund your money ,But send me the decoders back first.
And I will resell them to a person who truly needs them.
Maybe the photocopies are the ones you made before you get the refund.HMMMMMM.
And People in other countries wonder why we only sell to the USA buyers.
I guess I will join the USA only club cause obviously other countries are uncivilized arses..........
Anyway do what you must if your not gonna send them back First.
But they better be the originals I sold to you.
Not photocopies.
Then I will gladly put the funds back into your account.
----- Original Message -----
From: David Agnew
To: IBIDHIGH1965@xxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: e-Bay #'s 597658905 and 597659286
Uncivilised arses are we? Who do you think YOU are? Do you think we are some back yard hicks who can't tell the diff between an alleged 40 year old document, and a whiter than white brand new photocopy? I have done business with hundreds of US vendors for 10 years now, you are the first to pull a fast one. Never said they were ORIGINAL right out of the '60's !!
Ha, ha, ha ! So that's how you justify it. How many did you get out of the so called 'manual' ? You keep selling more of the same. Must have been an extraordinary find, so many VIN de-coders.
Well mate, as for your other e-mail. All I can say is great ! I am making official complaints to both e-Bay and PayPal re fraud. I am posting your name and e-mail address on the ''watch out for this scammer" bulletin board on e-Bay, and informing the many hundreds of people on the 2 listservers I belong to of your dubious activities.
As for your suggestion that I have photocopied them first, bullshit is what I say to that Doug. Even if I did, you could pick either one, as they would both be photocopies.
I bought them from your description, that stated ORIGINAL. They sure ain't original, that's for sure. I paid for original and that's what I expected.
So, refund me, as I said, I WILL send back your copies free of charge. Next time you list them, I'll be looking. Change the wording to 'copy'. That's my suggestion. Because a copy is what they are,
Dave in NZ
----- Original Message -----
From: IBIDHIGH1965@xxxxxxx
To: Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: e-Bay #'s 597658905 and 597659286
Ok I looked at the ad, yes I can see how it would be misleading.
They are original if you measure the paper and typeset.
I will refund your money after you leave me at the least neutral feedback.
Then I will take your word that you will send me back the decoders.
I will change my ads to just say that they are a decoder from the year involved.
I am not hard to get along with just when you start your replies with hard words.
I am gonna bite back.
I have always given people a break when the bids were up to high.
and would have refunded money if anyone was unhappy which has never been the case.
Let me know what steps you wanna take next.
and also if or when you leave neutral feedback...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 03:17:03 -0000
From: lajugle@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Walter P. Chrysler Museum, finally made it.
Problem: 300C engine on display is a boat anchor. Nicely painted,
has serial # obliterated, wrong oil filter, wrong generator, two
AFB's, wrong fuel lines(No filters), no de-clutching fan, didn't look
close at manifolds, but....and air cleaners held on with hex-nuts..
They have a CD-rom of pictures for sale, "300B with 392 CI hemi..."
I'm sure they will work to correct, but was I the first 300 person to
visit???
L. Andrew Jugle, Elmhurst, IL
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:26:36 EST
From: MJMLandDev@xxxxxxx
Subject: (no subject)
Thought I'd let you know my H was in a show in Ormond Beach today that was
sponsored by Chrysler. My car took 1st place in category 36C which is high
performance Mopars. Also received an award from Chrysler for the best
restoration. Also received another award from Chrysler for the most unusual
car because of the domed dash. Also got a special spotlight award from
Chrysler because of the car in general. They took all kinds of pictures of
it and they'll be back in Detroit in the next few days. Pretty good day I'd
say.
Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:41:03 -0700 (MST)
From: mr-320@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: In Defense of Galen Govier
im with roger karlson !!!!
ive heard about enough whining about how g/g has the temerity to
charge for his services, as though every one of the whiners doesnt do
the same, to pay for the hobby we all are involved in.
it puts me in mind of the timme i offered to detail and document
and supply brackets for the 64 k disc brake conversion and got whined
and flamed on so bad that i withdrew the offer and have never made a
similar offer, on anything, since; and expect that i never will, at
least not to this audience. it left a bad taste with me. so many people
expecting everything, for nothing; and theyll flame you down if you dont
give it. well the answer is to not even let them know what they are
missing.
g/g has EVERY right to charge for his expertise, if he can get
people to pay, it must be there.
roger karlson has every right to his opinion, one in which i
happen to concur. hey rog ! got a spare flame suit i can borrow??
JEFF
tucson az.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:20:18 -0500
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Reminder - listserver rules
Hi to all,
Time for the usual reminder. What our ( i.e. the Club's ) listserver is all about and what it's to be used for... and NOT used for.
WHAT THE LISTSERVER IS FOR :
Any exchange of information pertaining DIRECTLY to Chrysler 300's .
- Technical information that relates directly to Chrysler 300's ( not Plymouth cars, not Chrysler Newports, no Dodge Ram pickups, no Hemi Chargers, and no Subaru's...).
- Restoration tips and techniques that apply directly to Chrysler 300's.
- Parts for sale, or parts wanted, for Chrysler 300's ONLY.
- Cars for sale, or cars wanted . Chrysler 300's only, with only exception being related parts cars such as New Yorker, Saratoga, Windsor, etc .
- Feedback regarding vendors and suppliers of Chrysler 300 parts and cars and related services.
- Meet information
`
OK, get the idea? IT HAS TO RELATE TO CHRYSLER 300's. PERIOD.
WHAT THE LISTSERVER IS NOT FOR:
- Any of the above that does NOT relate to Chrysler 300's.
- Chit-chat, discussions, arguments, and the like. .
- Political statements, jokes, current events, car stuff unrelated to Chrysler 300's, etc.
PLEASE DO THAT ON YOUR OWN, ONE-ON-ONE, or start your own listserver and make your own rules.
========================================================
That said, Galen Govier, be he a GOOD man or a BAD man, has absolutely nothing to do with Chrysler 300's - and this by his own admission. Our cars are outside his area of expertise. Therefore, why are our members arguing about him ???? Why have there been over ten e-mails on this topic going though our listserver ???
"Flaming" : (vindictive and argumentative communications between members) is NOT in keeping with the general character of our car Club, and is definitely NOT welcome on this listserver. If you want to pick a fight with someone, go do it somewhere else. Or flame each other PRIVATELY if you must. We will not tolerate that kind of behavior, period.
========================================================
The majority of our 373 on-line members have indicated that they agree with the current Club policy of restricting listserver e-mails to PERTINENT and NECESSARY communications between members. It's what works best for the majority. That's the rule, like it or leave it.
So let's get back to our business - the restoration, preservation and enjoyment of our beloved 300's, and enjoy the holiday season in peace and friendship.
300'ly
John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:11:23 -0500
From: "Laurence G. Johnson" <laurence_g_johnson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Reminder - listserver rules
John,
Perhaps you did not read the last paragraph of my posting. I think that the
posting is a fair question, well within the guidelines of the list server,
and deserving of an answer, not a rebuke: What has the club done in the way
of documenting the authenticity of our cars similar to whar Galen has done
for the rest of the Chrysler line post 1962? Here is the original paragraph:
The statement that his knowledge base in thin prior to 1962, to me at least,
raises the issue that there is no organized, documented, central source for
information concerning our cars other that this club. (maybe the "other
guys" too) Isn't it time we created our own Bible to establish the
authenticity of these cars? Gil Cunningham may want to retire one of these
days, or George Rehl, or a dozen others that have carried the ball for
years. What does the club have to assure that future owners will have a
standard to judge "what is right" by?Larry Johnson
>From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: Chrysler 300 Club Listverver <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [Chrysler300] Reminder - listserver rules
>Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:20:18 -0500
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>
>Hi to all,
>
>Time for the usual reminder. What our ( i.e. the Club's ) listserver is all
>about and what it's to be used for... and NOT used for.
>
>WHAT THE LISTSERVER IS FOR :
>Any exchange of information pertaining DIRECTLY to Chrysler 300's .
>- Technical information that relates directly to Chrysler 300's ( not
>Plymouth cars, not Chrysler Newports, no Dodge Ram pickups, no Hemi
>Chargers, and no Subaru's...).
>- Restoration tips and techniques that apply directly to Chrysler 300's.
>- Parts for sale, or parts wanted, for Chrysler 300's ONLY.
>- Cars for sale, or cars wanted . Chrysler 300's only, with only exception
>being related parts cars such as New Yorker, Saratoga, Windsor, etc .
>- Feedback regarding vendors and suppliers of Chrysler 300 parts and cars
>and related services.
>- Meet information
>`
>OK, get the idea? IT HAS TO RELATE TO CHRYSLER 300's. PERIOD.
>
>WHAT THE LISTSERVER IS NOT FOR:
>- Any of the above that does NOT relate to Chrysler 300's.
>- Chit-chat, discussions, arguments, and the like. .
>- Political statements, jokes, current events, car stuff unrelated to
>Chrysler 300's, etc.
>PLEASE DO THAT ON YOUR OWN, ONE-ON-ONE, or start your own listserver and
>make your own rules.
>
>========================================================
>
>That said, Galen Govier, be he a GOOD man or a BAD man, has absolutely
>nothing to do with Chrysler 300's - and this by his own admission. Our
>cars are outside his area of expertise. Therefore, why are our members
>arguing about him ???? Why have there been over ten e-mails on this topic
>going though our listserver ???
>
>"Flaming" : (vindictive and argumentative communications between members)
>is NOT in keeping with the general character of our car Club, and is
>definitely NOT welcome on this listserver. If you want to pick a fight with
>someone, go do it somewhere else. Or flame each other PRIVATELY if you
>must. We will not tolerate that kind of behavior, period.
>
>========================================================
>
>The majority of our 373 on-line members have indicated that they agree
>with the current Club policy of restricting listserver e-mails to PERTINENT
>and NECESSARY communications between members. It's what works best for the
>majority. That's the rule, like it or leave it.
>
>So let's get back to our business - the restoration, preservation and
>enjoyment of our beloved 300's, and enjoy the holiday season in peace and
>friendship.
>
>300'ly
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:54:35 +1300
From: "Owen & Jo Grigg" <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: More on VIN De-coder scam on e-Bay.
Hi Dave,
Before you send em back would you mind running off some copies of the
copy,so I can send a set of copies back to this "civilized" one, as I'm not
happy with copies either and would like a 20 buck refund also. ;-)
Regards
The fellow "uncivilized arse".
Owen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: IBIDHIGH1965@xxxxxxx
> To: Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:22 PM
> Subject: Re: e-Bay #'s 597658905 and 597659286
> Maybe the photocopies are the ones you made before you get the
refund.HMMMMMM.
> And People in other countries wonder why we only sell to the USA buyers.
> I guess I will join the USA only club cause obviously other countries are
uncivilized arses..........
Send them back First.
> But they better be the originals I sold to you.
> Not photocopies.
> Then I will gladly put the funds back into your account.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Agnew
> To: IBIDHIGH1965@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: e-Bay #'s 597658905 and 597659286
>
>
> Uncivilised arses are we? Who do you think YOU are? Do you think we are
some back yard hicks who can't tell the diff between an alleged 40 year old
document, and a whiter than white brand new photocopy? I have done business
with hundreds of US vendors for 10 years now, you are the first to pull a
fast one. Never said they were ORIGINAL right out of the '60's !!
>
> Ha, ha, ha ! So that's how you justify it. How many did you get out of the
so called 'manual' ? You keep selling more of the same. Must have been an
extraordinary find, so many VIN de-coders.
>
> Well mate, as for your other e-mail. All I can say is great ! I am making
official complaints to both e-Bay and PayPal re fraud. I am posting your
name and e-mail address on the ''watch out for this scammer" bulletin board
on e-Bay, and informing the many hundreds of people on the 2 listservers I
belong to of your dubious activities.
> As for your suggestion that I have photocopied them first, bullshit is
what I say to that Doug. Even if I did, you could pick either one, as they
would both be photocopies.
> I bought them from your description, that stated ORIGINAL. They sure ain't
original, that's for sure. I paid for original and that's what I expected.
> So, refund me, as I said, I WILL send back your copies free of charge.
Next time you list them, I'll be looking. Change the wording to 'copy'.
That's my suggestion. Because a copy is what they are,
> Dave in NZ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: IBIDHIGH1965@xxxxxxx
> To: Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 5:36 PM
> Subject: Re: e-Bay #'s 597658905 and 597659286
>
>
> Ok I looked at the ad, yes I can see how it would be misleading.
> They are original if you measure the paper and typeset.
> I will refund your money after you leave me at the least neutral
feedback.
> Then I will take your word that you will send me back the decoders.
> I will change my ads to just say that they are a decoder from the year
involved.
> I am not hard to get along with just when you start your replies with
hard words.
> I am gonna bite back.
> I have always given people a break when the bids were up to high.
> and would have refunded money if anyone was unhappy which has never been
the case.
> Let me know what steps you wanna take next.
> and also if or when you leave neutral feedback...
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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