[Chrysler300] Digest Number 31

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[Chrysler300] Digest Number 31

From: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 04:35:54 -0500

Title: [Chrysler300] Digest Number 31

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/mkiolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Thank You!
           From: JamesPFaber@xxxxxxx
      2. Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "heinitz" <heinitz@xxxxxxx>
      3. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: moparted <moparted_70@xxxxxxxxx>
      4. Re: Pinging & Timing
           From: "Magik Draggin'" <longrammopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
      5. Re: Pinging & Timing
           From: Herman <herman440@xxxxxxxxx>
      6. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: BKWare@xxxxxxx
      7. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "Owen & Jo Grigg" <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>
      8. Re: Pinging & Timing
           From: Mike <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      9. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "Jerry Browarski" <mopar-man@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     10. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "Jack Farris" <jackfarris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     11. RE: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "JONES,DOUG (A-USA,ex3)" <doug_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     12. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
     13. Re: Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: Herman <herman440@xxxxxxxxx>
     14. RE: Pinging & Timing
           From: "Melton, Ray" <rmelton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     15. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "Keith Langendorfer" <langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
     16. more on pinging
           From: "RCMerritt" <rcmerritt@xxxxxxxxxx>
     17. RE: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "JONES,DOUG (A-USA,ex3)" <doug_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     18. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "Keith Langendorfer" <langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
     19. RE: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: "Magik Draggin'" <longrammopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     20. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
     21. Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
     22. Re: Re: Oct Hot Rodding
           From: RONVE@xxxxxxx

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 09:39:46 EDT
From: JamesPFaber@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Thank You!

Like the other people, I want to thank our international members for their
prayers and good thoughts.
I pray that all of these good people will continue to stand at our sides in
the days to come, there will be some tough times, there will be political
ramifications, please remember that every free country is and has been
subject to these actions.
Please stay with us to help eliminate those responcible.
Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 07:51:51 -0700
From: "heinitz" <heinitz@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Oct Hot Rodding

Got my copy of Oct Hot Rodding and the awsome layout of Johns Beautiful Brutes. What a collection to die for. I liked the part about "Chrysler Invented The Musclecar." I myself believe they did. Question. At a meet last year my 68 300 was judged as a reg Chrysler, when along side of me a Baracuda with a 318 was judged as a muscle car. I thought that was wrong, what do you guys think?. Chuck in Washington, Club president said 300's wern't considered a muscle car, I say they started it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:40:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: moparted <moparted_70@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

A 68 300 is not a muscle car. It may be 440 powered
but..

--- heinitz <heinitz@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Got my copy of Oct Hot Rodding and the awsome layout
> of Johns Beautiful Brutes. What a collection to die
> for. I liked the part about "Chrysler Invented The
> Musclecar." I myself believe they did. Question. At
> a meet last year my 68 300 was judged as a reg
> Chrysler, when along side of me a Baracuda with a
> 318 was judged as a muscle car. I thought that was
> wrong, what do you guys think?. Chuck in Washington,
> Club president said 300's wern't considered a muscle
> car, I say they started it.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

=====

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:05:22 -0500
From: "Magik Draggin'" <longrammopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Pinging & Timing

The problem may not be timing related at all, but rather the result of
carbon deposits on the cylinder ledges that remain hot after compression and
ignition from the previous stroke and then ignite the incoming fuel for the
next stroke prematurely.

Short of pulling the heads and removing the deposits, you might simply
consider retarding the timing to 5 deg BTDC (which is where the ram engines
are set). Simply could be that 10 degrees of advance on a 40 yr old 413 is
too much to compensate for even with hi-octane fuel.

Karl

>From: "Jennifer Allyn" <gearhead.girl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: "Chrysler 300 Club Int'l Listserver" <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [Chrysler300] Pinging & Timing
>Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:24:39 -0700
>
>My 1962 413 (single 4-barrell) is making some good pinging these days.
>I've
>checked the timing, which I have set at the 10-degree mark on the balancer
>(as opposed to the 0-degree mark). Under the distributor cap I have one of
>those electronic ignition boxes opposed to points. I run the
>highest-octane
>gas I can find. Not running any hotter than it usually does.
>
>Any ideas how to make the detonating cease?
>
>Thanks
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:50:55 +0200
From: Herman <herman440@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Pinging & Timing

I have heard a 'possible' way to get rid of that excessive carbon
buildup in your engine.

This, of course, is a very lowbuck solution...!
I've never tried this myself yet, but you can 'trickle' some drops of
water in your carb with the engine at 2500 rpm or higher.
This 'boils' the carbon out of the cylinders somewhat.
Care must be taken not to put too much water in at a time because of the
danger of a waterlock, but you must be very generous
with water if you're able to fill up a 90 cc head-chamber with water at
2500 rpm...
Has anyone done this before, so you can clarify if this works as they
say it does?

Of course the only proper way to remove the carbon is to pull the heads.

My '62 NewYorker Wagon 413 also pings when the engine is hot...
And we even have 98 octane pumpfuel here...!
Blocking the heat-crossover passage in the intake manifold does help a
lot against pinging.
I neglected this when I had the engine apart the last time. And it
started pinging after that.. :o(

Herman.
The Netherlands

http://drive.to/chrysler
Hemi's Mopar and Dragracing Message Board:
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action="">

Magik Draggin' wrote:

> The problem may not be timing related at all, but rather the result of
>
> carbon deposits on the cylinder ledges that remain hot after
> compression and
> ignition from the previous stroke and then ignite the incoming fuel
> for the
> next stroke prematurely.
>
> Short of pulling the heads and removing the deposits, you might simply
>
> consider retarding the timing to 5 deg BTDC (which is where the ram
> engines
> are set). Simply could be that 10 degrees of advance on a 40 yr old
> 413 is
> too much to compensate for even with hi-octane fuel.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
> >From: "Jennifer Allyn" <gearhead.girl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: "Chrysler 300 Club Int'l Listserver"
> <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: [Chrysler300] Pinging & Timing
> >Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:24:39 -0700
> >
> >My 1962 413 (single 4-barrell) is making some good pinging these
> days.
> >I've
> >checked the timing, which I have set at the 10-degree mark on the
> balancer
> >(as opposed to the 0-degree mark). Under the distributor cap I have
> one of
> >those electronic ignition boxes opposed to points. I run the
> >highest-octane
> >gas I can find. Not running any hotter than it usually does.
> >
> >Any ideas how to make the detonating cease?
> >
> >Thanks
> >

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:01:30 EDT
From: BKWare@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

Exactly which magazine has Johns Brutes in the October issue? I haven't
found it on my newstand. ie Popular Hot rodding, Hot Rod, another rodder,
etc.

Thanks,
Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:06:21 +1200
From: "Owen & Jo Grigg" <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

Good question how do you define what a "musclecar" is?
Sometime back I was invited to show my 300C at the National Musclecar Show
in NZ. Now I was told they had to bend the rules to allow my car in. There
rule book states only early 60's to early 70's as a musclecar. The C stood
out like a sore thumb at the show, and more than a few scoffed at it, saying
what's a full size '50s car doing here.
I on the otherhand looked around at the small cubic displacement Mustangs,
Camaros, and Cudas, which I commonly refer to as "school girls cars", ie-
low hp compact cars!
My C puts out 375hp from factory other cars present were lucky if they broke
the 300 mark. So if the word muscle means hp..........
Or does it mean any old compact from the 60's and 70's era?
Owen

Question. At a meet last year my 68 300 was judged as a reg Chrysler, when
along side of me a Baracuda with a 318 was judged as a muscle car. I thought
that was wrong, what do you guys think?.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:56:12 -0700
From: Mike <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Pinging & Timing

I've seen old timers do this(and I've done it myself).
Usually about "one coke bottle full" will do the job, just dribble it in
with the revs kept up, to keep things from drowning out.
It won't hurt any thing & it just might help.
Once, on a camping trip, I forded a stream on my old Maico two stroke
motorcycle & got the air cleaner partially submerged(water was spitting out
the exhaust pipe). Had occaision to take the head off a few days later &
the insides were completely devoid of any carbon buildup.
Mike

At 10:50 PM 9/18/01 +0200, Herman wrote:
>I
>
>This, of course, is a very lowbuck solution...!
>I've never tried this myself yet, but you can 'trickle' some drops of
>water in your carb with the engine at 2500 rpm or higher.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:09:59 -0400
From: "Jerry Browarski" <mopar-man@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

Back in the early '70s I bought a used '68 New Yorker 2-dr hardtop with the HO 375hp 440. I tore up many a "muscle car" with that big brute and saw many a shocked look on the faces of the drivers of those cars. One such event occured when I was at a light on a 3-lane highway and was next to a Mustang and a Camaro that were obviously going to have at it. They paid no attention to me but when the light turned green we all blasted off. The 2 "muscle cars" got a slight jump on me but by the time we got to around 45mph I caught 'em and started pulling away. Talk about looks of surprise! Why a car has to be less than full-size to be considered a "muscle car" is beyond me.

Jerry Browarski

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:10:58 -0700
From: "Jack Farris" <jackfarris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

Although I don't necessarily agree, the term "Muscle Car" refers to a
certain genre of mid-sized cars of the mid sixties to early seventies that
had big block engines and were produced specifically for the purpose of
going fast. The first car that was "officially" designated as a "muscle car"
(if I recall) was the Pontiac GTO. Other muscle cars included Olds 442's,
Barracudas & Chargers (big blocks only), big block Camaro's and Mustangs,
and other big block mid-sized Mopars and other makes. There may have been
other cars that could go faster, or were more powerful, but they did not fit
the definition of the genre. "Muscle Cars" were produced primarily to appeal
to a younger demographic than our 300's.

Jack

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Owen & Jo Grigg" <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "heinitz" <heinitz@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
>Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001, 3:06 PM
>

> Good question how do you define what a "musclecar" is?
> Sometime back I was invited to show my 300C at the National Musclecar Show
> in NZ. Now I was told they had to bend the rules to allow my car in. There
> rule book states only early 60's to early 70's as a musclecar. The C stood
> out like a sore thumb at the show, and more than a few scoffed at it, saying
> what's a full size '50s car doing here.
> I on the otherhand looked around at the small cubic displacement Mustangs,
> Camaros, and Cudas, which I commonly refer to as "school girls cars", ie-
> low hp compact cars!
> My C puts out 375hp from factory other cars present were lucky if they broke
> the 300 mark. So if the word muscle means hp..........
> Or does it mean any old compact from the 60's and 70's era?
> Owen
>
> Question. At a meet last year my 68 300 was judged as a reg Chrysler, when
> along side of me a Baracuda with a 318 was judged as a muscle car. I thought
> that was wrong, what do you guys think?.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:13:45 -0600
From: "JONES,DOUG (A-USA,ex3)" <doug_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Oct Hot Rodding

There is a difference between a 'banker's express' and a muscle car. It is
commonly held that the first muscle car (meaning big engine in a compact
(well, relatively compact), fairly inexpensive car was the '64 GTO. It is
also commonly held that the muscle car era ended in the early '70s due to
emissions restrictions. As with any arbitrary definition, this one causes
problems. Nobody would doubt that a '69 Camaro with a 396 is a muscle car,
but is the same Camaro with a 327, or even a 6, still one? I would argue
they are not. What about big engine imports like the Jensen Interceptor,
Iso Grifo, and Facel Vega? Most would argue these are Banker's Express
cars, not muscle cars. The 300 certainly invented the American version of
the Banker's Express, which was copied in various Tbirds, Rivieras, Grand
Prix etc. An Eldorado with a 500 inch engine is NOT a muscle car, and for
the same reasons (too big, too expensive, and too heavy) I personally would
argue that the 300 is not a muscle car. MoPar muscle cars are the (big
engines only, please) A, B, and E body ChallengaRudas, ChargRoadSuperBs, and
ValDustDart 340's. My opinion only, of course, and as arbitrary as any
other ...

300ly, Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Owen & Jo Grigg [mailto:ram300@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:06 PM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; heinitz
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:24:21 EDT
From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

Owen,
I think this subject has been argued to death for many years now and I
suspect it will be argued for many more. I say if your car satisfies YOU and
has the muscle that makes YOU comfortable, then it is a Muscle Car!!
Ron...
ps ... My 'School Girl Car' has 600+ hp, "from the factory", it's a 'cuda.
However I agree with you, it's a wuss when compared to GranPappy 300's !!
My 'cuda may be a bit more nimble, but can't compare to the muscle of the
300's I've owned !!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 00:46:43 +0200
From: Herman <herman440@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

I guess for GM-minded people "their" MuscleCar years started with the
GTO.

But to stay with the 'medium car/big engine' thing, no doubth that
Plymouth and Dodge in '62 had the lead with their 413/426's in their
(pardon the choice of words) 'Grandma'-carmodels.... :o)

I one asks my oppinion about fast cars, what's more exhillarating (sp?)
then having a fullsized car going like a bat out of hell...

Herman
The Netherlands

http://drive.to/chrysler
Hemi's Mopar and Dragrace MessageBoard:
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action="">

--------------------

Jerry Browarski wrote:

> Back in the early '70s I bought a used '68 New Yorker 2-dr hardtop
> with the HO 375hp 440. I tore up many a "muscle car" with that big
> brute and saw many a shocked look on the faces of the drivers of those
> cars. One such event occured when I was at a light on a 3-lane
> highway and was next to a Mustang and a Camaro that were obviously
> going to have at it. They paid no attention to me but when the light
> turned green we all blasted off. The 2 "muscle cars" got a slight
> jump on me but by the time we got to around 45mph I caught 'em and
> started pulling away. Talk about looks of surprise! Why a car has to
> be less than full-size to be considered a "muscle car" is beyond me.
>
> Jerry Browarski
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:53:35 -0600
From: "Melton, Ray" <rmelton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Pinging & Timing

Mike, I didn't know there were any more of us old "Maico Break-O" riders
left out there!

I've heard that the "water down the throat" method works by rapidly cooling
the carbon-encrusted surfaces of the piston and head, and the difference in
thermal expansion between the two materials dislodges the crusts. The
method is not without some danger, though -- the rapid cooling can distort
some of the metals, leading to cracks or warpage, particularly on the hot
intake valve the water just passed over; and the dislodged carbon pieces can
get caught in the piston ring clearances, degrading the compression seal.
If the carbon pieces are not immediately expelled from the cylinder, they
can also become temporarily embedded in an exhaust valve face or seat, which
holds the valve open a bit and can cause a leak, as well as possibly leading
to a burned valve as the chunk prevents the valve from closing fully and
transferring its heat to the water- (or air-) cooled head.
Ray Melton

> ----------
> From:         Mike[SMTP:moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent:         Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:56 PM
> To: Herman; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject:      Re: [Chrysler300] Pinging & Timing
>
> I've seen old timers do this(and I've done it myself).
> Usually about "one coke bottle full" will do the job, just dribble it in
> with the revs kept up, to keep things from drowning out.
> It won't hurt any thing & it just might help.
> Once, on a camping trip, I forded a stream on my old Maico two stroke
> motorcycle & got the air cleaner partially submerged(water was spitting
> out
> the exhaust pipe). Had occaision to take the head off a few days later &
> the insides were completely devoid of any carbon buildup.
> Mike
>
> At 10:50 PM 9/18/01 +0200, Herman wrote:
> >I
> >
> >This, of course, is a very lowbuck solution...!
> >I've never tried this myself yet, but you can 'trickle' some drops of
> >water in your carb with the engine at 2500 rpm or higher.
>
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go to
> http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:06:29 -0400
From: "Keith Langendorfer" <langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

Folks:

A bit of overkill at this point, it would seem, however...

There are several definitions of the first musclecars, including the first
Buick Century (Special Body w/ Roadmaster engine). In the modern context of
smaller car/larger engine, I have always contended (I was even quoted as a
16 year old in a 1967 edition of Motor Trend Magazine, believe it or not),
that the first incarnation of the GTO-type defintion was the 1956 Studebaker
Golden Hawk. Think about it...the largest engine in 1956 was a 374" Packard
engine (the G-Hawk engine's larger brother, some of which were dealer
installed in these cars w/ dual quads..310HP). Also, the car could be had w/
stick/OD
(HD T-85 B-W), ratios up to 4:56, ordered without PS or PB and, at no extra
cost, evil handling. A brute to be sure, but one that mesmerized the
automotive press
at the time. Certainly, this was not the balanced vehicle a 300B was, but,
in its way, was a precursor for some of the outrageousness we saw in the
sixties.

Just my opinion...

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Farris <jackfarris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Owen & Jo Grigg <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; heinitz <heinitz@xxxxxxx>
Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding

>Although I don't necessarily agree, the term "Muscle Car" refers to a
>certain genre of mid-sized cars of the mid sixties to early seventies that
>had big block engines and were produced specifically for the purpose of
>going fast. The first car that was "officially" designated as a "muscle
car"
>(if I recall) was the Pontiac GTO. Other muscle cars included Olds 442's,
>Barracudas & Chargers (big blocks only), big block Camaro's and Mustangs,
>and other big block mid-sized Mopars and other makes. There may have been
>other cars that could go faster, or were more powerful, but they did not
fit
>the definition of the genre. "Muscle Cars" were produced primarily to
appeal
>to a younger demographic than our 300's.
>
>Jack
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>From: "Owen & Jo Grigg" <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "heinitz" <heinitz@xxxxxxx>
>>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
>>Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001, 3:06 PM
>>
>
>> Good question how do you define what a "musclecar" is?
>> Sometime back I was invited to show my 300C at the National Musclecar
Show
>> in NZ. Now I was told they had to bend the rules to allow my car in.
There
>> rule book states only early 60's to early 70's as a musclecar. The C
stood
>> out like a sore thumb at the show, and more than a few scoffed at it,
saying
>> what's a full size '50s car doing here.
>> I on the otherhand looked around at the small cubic displacement
Mustangs,
>> Camaros, and Cudas, which I commonly refer to as "school girls cars", ie-
>> low hp compact cars!
>> My C puts out 375hp from factory other cars present were lucky if they
broke
>> the 300 mark. So if the word muscle means hp..........
>> Or does it mean any old compact from the 60's and 70's era?
>> Owen
>>
>> Question. At a meet last year my 68 300 was judged as a reg Chrysler,
when
>> along side of me a Baracuda with a 318 was judged as a muscle car. I
thought
>> that was wrong, what do you guys think?.
>
>
>To send a message to this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:07:15 -0400
From: "RCMerritt" <rcmerritt@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: more on pinging

Thoughts from George Riehl:

Many an old time mechanic has used the spray of water into a running
engine to dislodge carbon deposits. This has been done a number of times on
not only gasoline engines but diesels also. Over rich carbs, injectors, bad
valve seals, worn valve guides and low grade fuels will deposit carbon into
the cylinders and on top of the pistons. Since water is hydrogen and oxygen,
it can produce a very slight gain in horse power. It also turns into super
heated steam that results as a "scrubber" for the internal parts of the
engine.
Detonation occurs when the compression ratio is increased from internal
deposits and the "after glow" of the deposits that ignite the fuel before
the piston reaches it's proper timing sequence (spark plug firing). Changing
the timing by rotating the distributor to reduce this condition does not
eliminate it as to lack of sound. It is still present. This results in poor
engine power and more fuel waste and adding more deposits to the chamber
from the unburnt fuel.
Many years ago, water injection systems were sold from auto parts stores
to help keep late thirties and very early 40s cars (during the WWII) running
because of the poor quality of fuel and non detergent oil which added to
build-up in the combustion chambers even though the compression ratios were
in the 6s and low 7s. In higher compression engines, water injection was
used not only to reduce deposits but to increase performance and run cooler
internally. Of course, care must be taken to obtain the proper "injection"
of the water, too much can hamper the "burn" of the fuel and actually short
out a plug.
Done in a careful way, good results can be had. But other bad maintenance
factors have to be considered and repaired. One good source of a problem is
the bad vacuum advance on the dist. and the weights inside of the dist. Oh,
and I might add, use distilled or rain water as there are no minerals to add
to the problem.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 18:21:46 -0600
From: "JONES,DOUG (A-USA,ex3)" <doug_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Oct Hot Rodding

The '56 Golden Hawk! Boy, do I remember those! I really wanted one until a
guy told me that, driven very carefully, the front tires might go 10,000
miles ... I guess it couldn't drag race cuz there was no weight over the
rear axle. I had a '54 Stude wagon with the standard V8, and it cornered
like an overloaded ferry boat. I can only imagine how the GH must have
been.

I think we 300-o-philes can take pride that OUR hot rod was a total package,
and proved it at NASCAR. On the other hand, it was a very expensive car
looking for a select audience who wanted full size comfort and style
combined with serious motivation...and had the bucks to pay for it!

Maybe we can define the Bankers Express as cars rich guys buy so they can
see off the kids, and Muscle Cars as cars kids buy to see off the rich guys!

300ly,
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Langendorfer [mailto:langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:06 PM
To: Owen & Jo Grigg; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; heinitz; Jack Farris
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding

Folks:

A bit of overkill at this point, it would seem, however...

Just my opinion...

Keith

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:03:42 -0400
From: "Keith Langendorfer" <langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

Like I said in my e-mail, evil handling (I have only had 1957 G-H's).

But you have to admit they have always been something of an enigma and are
intriguing and qualify as the first "little car-big engine vehicle". With
300 pounds of sandbags in the trunk (Uncle Tom McCahill's suggestion) and
ordered w/o PS or PB to add the front end load, they no doubt could rip the
1/4 w/ with a low rear ratio in their day. "Loaded Ultramatics" would be
more guilty of the characteristics you are describing.

Again, I don't equate them w/ a 300B, but they were no worse than many
"sofas on wheels" of that era, in terms of handling...and certainly more
arresting and attractive in terms of appearance (thanks to Bob Bourke and
Raymond Loewy).

300ly,
Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: JONES,DOUG (A-USA,ex3) <doug_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding

>The '56 Golden Hawk! Boy, do I remember those! I really wanted one until
a
>guy told me that, driven very carefully, the front tires might go 10,000
>miles ... I guess it couldn't drag race cuz there was no weight over the
>rear axle. I had a '54 Stude wagon with the standard V8, and it cornered
>like an overloaded ferry boat. I can only imagine how the GH must have
>been.
>
>I think we 300-o-philes can take pride that OUR hot rod was a total
package,
>and proved it at NASCAR. On the other hand, it was a very expensive car
>looking for a select audience who wanted full size comfort and style
>combined with serious motivation...and had the bucks to pay for it!
>
>Maybe we can define the Bankers Express as cars rich guys buy so they can
>see off the kids, and Muscle Cars as cars kids buy to see off the rich
guys!
>
>300ly,
>Doug
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Langendorfer [mailto:langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 5:06 PM
>To: Owen & Jo Grigg; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; heinitz; Jack Farris
>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
>
>
>Folks:
>
>A bit of overkill at this point, it would seem, however...
>
>There are several definitions of the first musclecars, including the first
>Buick Century (Special Body w/ Roadmaster engine). In the modern context of
>smaller car/larger engine, I have always contended (I was even quoted as a
>16 year old in a 1967 edition of Motor Trend Magazine, believe it or not),
>that the first incarnation of the GTO-type defintion was the 1956
Studebaker
>Golden Hawk. Think about it...the largest engine in 1956 was a 374" Packard
>engine (the G-Hawk engine's larger brother, some of which were dealer
>installed in these cars w/ dual quads..310HP). Also, the car could be had
w/
>stick/OD
>(HD T-85 B-W), ratios up to 4:56, ordered without PS or PB and, at no extra
>cost, evil handling. A brute to be sure, but one that mesmerized the
>automotive press
>at the time. Certainly, this was not the balanced vehicle a 300B was, but,
>in its way, was a precursor for some of the outrageousness we saw in the
>sixties.
>
>Just my opinion...
>
>Keith
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Farris <jackfarris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: Owen & Jo Grigg <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
><Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; heinitz <heinitz@xxxxxxx>
>Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 6:12 PM
>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
>
>
>>Although I don't necessarily agree, the term "Muscle Car" refers to a
>>certain genre of mid-sized cars of the mid sixties to early seventies that
>>had big block engines and were produced specifically for the purpose of
>>going fast. The first car that was "officially" designated as a "muscle
>car"
>>(if I recall) was the Pontiac GTO. Other muscle cars included Olds 442's,
>>Barracudas & Chargers (big blocks only), big block Camaro's and Mustangs,
>>and other big block mid-sized Mopars and other makes. There may have been
>>other cars that could go faster, or were more powerful, but they did not
>fit
>>the definition of the genre. "Muscle Cars" were produced primarily to
>appeal
>>to a younger demographic than our 300's.
>>
>>Jack
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>>From: "Owen & Jo Grigg" <ram300@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "heinitz" <heinitz@xxxxxxx>
>>>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
>>>Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001, 3:06 PM
>>>
>>
>>> Good question how do you define what a "musclecar" is?
>>> Sometime back I was invited to show my 300C at the National Musclecar
>Show
>>> in NZ. Now I was told they had to bend the rules to allow my car in.
>There
>>> rule book states only early 60's to early 70's as a musclecar. The C
>stood
>>> out like a sore thumb at the show, and more than a few scoffed at it,
>saying
>>> what's a full size '50s car doing here.
>>> I on the otherhand looked around at the small cubic displacement
>Mustangs,
>>> Camaros, and Cudas, which I commonly refer to as "school girls cars",
ie-
>>> low hp compact cars!
>>> My C puts out 375hp from factory other cars present were lucky if they
>broke
>>> the 300 mark. So if the word muscle means hp..........
>>> Or does it mean any old compact from the 60's and 70's era?
>>> Owen
>>>
>>> Question. At a meet last year my 68 300 was judged as a reg Chrysler,
>when
>>> along side of me a Baracuda with a 318 was judged as a muscle car. I
>thought
>>> that was wrong, what do you guys think?.
>>
>>
>>To send a message to this group, send an email to:
>>Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>For list server instructions, go to
>http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>>
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>To send a message to this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>For list server instructions, go to
>http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>To send a message to this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:01:14 -0500
From: "Magik Draggin'" <longrammopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Oct Hot Rodding

I tend to agree with your assessment of this "Musclecar" business. I am
reminded of a local Mopar only show I attended last year where nearly every
car in attendence was, by definition, a Musclecar, except for a few
"antique" Plymouths, Chryslers and 1 De Soto...and of course, my 300G.

Having won a trophy and as I was walking up to claim my prize, the announcer
stated that while my car was not a "genuine" Mopar muscle car and probably
wasn't the fastest Mopar on the lot, it most definitely was the "King" of
the Mopars for many years, and in some estimations, still is.

Then I can recall some Mopar shows that didn't want to acknowledge my 300 as
even being a "Mopar".....duh!

Karl

>From: "JONES,DOUG (A-USA,ex3)" <doug_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:13:45 -0600
>
>There is a difference between a 'banker's express' and a muscle car. It is
>commonly held that the first muscle car (meaning big engine in a compact
>(well, relatively compact), fairly inexpensive car was the '64 GTO. It is
>also commonly held that the muscle car era ended in the early '70s due to
>emissions restrictions. As with any arbitrary definition, this one causes
>problems. Nobody would doubt that a '69 Camaro with a 396 is a muscle car,
>but is the same Camaro with a 327, or even a 6, still one? I would argue
>they are not. What about big engine imports like the Jensen Interceptor,
>Iso Grifo, and Facel Vega? Most would argue these are Banker's Express
>cars, not muscle cars. The 300 certainly invented the American version of
>the Banker's Express, which was copied in various Tbirds, Rivieras, Grand
>Prix etc. An Eldorado with a 500 inch engine is NOT a muscle car, and for
>the same reasons (too big, too expensive, and too heavy) I personally would
>argue that the 300 is not a muscle car. MoPar muscle cars are the (big
>engines only, please) A, B, and E body ChallengaRudas, ChargRoadSuperBs,
>and
>ValDustDart 340's. My opinion only, of course, and as arbitrary as any
>other ...
>
>300ly, Doug
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Owen & Jo Grigg [mailto:ram300@xxxxxxxxxx]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:06 PM
>To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; heinitz
>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
>
>
>Good question how do you define what a "musclecar" is?
>Sometime back I was invited to show my 300C at the National Musclecar Show
>in NZ. Now I was told they had to bend the rules to allow my car in. There
>rule book states only early 60's to early 70's as a musclecar. The C stood
>out like a sore thumb at the show, and more than a few scoffed at it,
>saying
>what's a full size '50s car doing here.
>I on the otherhand looked around at the small cubic displacement Mustangs,
>Camaros, and Cudas, which I commonly refer to as "school girls cars", ie-
>low hp compact cars!
>My C puts out 375hp from factory other cars present were lucky if they
>broke
>the 300 mark. So if the word muscle means hp..........
>Or does it mean any old compact from the 60's and 70's era?
>Owen
>
> Question. At a meet last year my 68 300 was judged as a reg Chrysler,
>when
>along side of me a Baracuda with a 318 was judged as a muscle car. I
>thought
>that was wrong, what do you guys think?.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> > Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > For list server instructions, go to
>http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>To send a message to this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>For list server instructions, go to
>http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:08:04 EDT
From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

In a message dated 9/18/2001 5:15:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
doug_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:

> MoPar muscle cars are the (big engines only, please) A, B, and E body
>

No one will convince me that the 62-63 Plymouth/Dodges were not 'Muscle Cars'
... specially when they had their Hemis in them!
Not only were they around before the Goats, but they consistently ate goats
for lunch at the digs!!
My mildly prejudiced opinion!
Ron...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:10:05 EDT
From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

In a message dated 9/18/2001 5:15:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
jackfarris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

> , the term "Muscle Car" refers to a certain genre of mid-sized cars of the
>

Where is this written?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 22
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:12:22 EDT
From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Re: Oct Hot Rodding

In a message dated 9/18/2001 5:56:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
herman440@xxxxxxxxx writes:

> I guess for GM-minded people "their" MuscleCar years started with the
> GTO.
>
> But to stay with the 'medium car/big engine' thing, no doubth that
> Plymouth and Dodge in '62 had the lead with their 413/426's in their
> (pardon the choice of words) 'Grandma'-carmodels.... :o)
>
> I one asks my oppinion about fast cars, what's more exhillarating (sp?)
> then having a fullsized car going like a bat out of hell...
>
>
> Herman
> The Netherlands
>

Agreed on ALL points Herman!
Ron...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Prev by Date: Re: [Chrysler300] Re: Oct Hot Rodding
Next by Date: RE: [Chrysler300] Oct Hot Rodding
Previous by thread: Re: [Chrysler300] Re: Oct Hot Rodding
Next by thread: 600 Horsepower from the factory?
Index(es):
- Date
- Thread

Back to the Home of the Forward Look Network Archive Sitemap

Copyright � The Forward Look Network. All rights reserved.
Opinions expressed in posts reflect the views of their respective authors.
This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated.