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There are 17 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Thank You!
From: "NANCY TERRY" <nterry2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
2. Pinging & Timing
From: "Jennifer Allyn" <gearhead.girl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
3. Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
4. RE: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
From: "NOWOSACKI,JOHN (A-USA,ex1)" <john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx>
5. Alternator bracket for C
From: Chris Davis <pngkid@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
6. FW: RE: sluggish engine (392): it's all over now !
From: " Jim McMullan" <macthehammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
7. Re: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
From: hurst300@xxxxxxxxxxx
8. RE: RE: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
From: "ron waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxx>
9. Re: Thank You!
From: GUINEE300F@xxxxxxx
10. Fall Meet - banquet
From: Andy Mikonis <r41hp@xxxxxxxxx>
11. Re: sluggish engine (392): it's all over now !
From: BKWare@xxxxxxx
12. Europeans
From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
13. 300F for Sale
From: "Keith Langendorfer" <langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
14. 16K C Cv in Hemmings
From: "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
15. Re: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
From: "L. Andrew Jugle" <lajugle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
16. Hertog away
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
17. Re: Thank You!
From: "Dean Mullinax" <55des4me@xxxxxxxx>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 04:24:15
From: "NANCY TERRY" <nterry2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Thank You!
On behalf of ourselves , and I'm sure many other U.S. members of the club,
we thank our members from other countries who expressed their sympathy over
the tragedies of the past week.
Sincerely,
Nancy and George Terry
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:24:39 -0700
From: "Jennifer Allyn" <gearhead.girl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Pinging & Timing
My 1962 413 (single 4-barrell) is making some good pinging these days. I've
checked the timing, which I have set at the 10-degree mark on the balancer
(as opposed to the 0-degree mark). Under the distributor cap I have one of
those electronic ignition boxes opposed to points. I run the highest-octane
gas I can find. Not running any hotter than it usually does.
Any ideas how to make the detonating cease?
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 08:10:29 -0400
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
Hi Jennie,
Assuming all is working as it should, distributor advance, etc, one good
possibility is that you are timing the engine, using the TDC reference mark
on the harmonic balancer, and that the outer ring of the harmonic balancer
has slipped . I find this to be a common occurence these days, with more
balancers being "bad" than good !
I have a PILE of bad balancers from various 413 - 440 Mopars . Do not assume
that the TDC mark on the balancer is where it should be !
The balancer is comprised of two " rings" held together by a vulcanised
strip of rubber, or some such. This is only visible once the balancer is
removed, from the backside.
Get yourself a piston stop ( one can be made from an old spark plug and a
bolt, bust out the porcelain from the old plug, tap the metal part to
receive a bolt than can thread in and out of it.) Then put the engine on #1
TDC going by the mark on the balancer and remove #1 cylinder spark plug and
insert the tool. Thread the bolt to where it barely touches the top of the
piston. Place a socket on the crank pulley and slowly rotate it one way and
the other ( will be easier if you have removed ALL the plugs ! ) . By
playing with the piston stop, you should be able to find TRUE TDC - the
point at which the piston is at the very top, right between where it stops
going up and starts coming down - and veryfy the accuracy of the mark on the
balancer. TDC, of course, should correspond on the mark on the balancer.
betcha it doesn't .
I have some balancers that are off by 5 degrees, some by ten degrees, some
by fifteen, some by more ! I recently had an engine on a stand and decided
to "test" all my balancers, so I put the engine at true TDC and then
test-fitted one balancer after another. For each one good one, I had four
bad ones !
If balancer is "off" , then you should time the car by ear only... and
probably have the balancer rebuilt or replaced. There's always a risk that
the outer ring will separate from the inner one, I have heard of this
happening to several of our members .
300'ly
John
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:15:31 -0600
From: "NOWOSACKI,JOHN (A-USA,ex1)" <john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
I have another approach to finding TDC that has worked well for me.
Using the threaded adapter from a compression tester, you can put a balloon
on the end of the hose coming from the adapter. Maximum inflation of the
balloon occurs at TDC. It's pretty dramatic, so I'm sure it gets you to
within a degree or so.
I used this method on my wife's 62 NYer wagon after having little to no
success with a timing light on the number one plug wire. All is well now.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hertog [mailto:crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 8:10 AM
To: Jennifer Allyn; Chrysler 300 Club Int'l Listserver
Subject: [Chrysler300] Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
Hi Jennie,
Assuming all is working as it should, distributor advance, etc, one good
possibility is that you are timing the engine, using the TDC reference mark
on the harmonic balancer, and that the outer ring of the harmonic balancer
has slipped . I find this to be a common occurence these days, with more
balancers being "bad" than good !
I have a PILE of bad balancers from various 413 - 440 Mopars . Do not assume
that the TDC mark on the balancer is where it should be !
The balancer is comprised of two " rings" held together by a vulcanised
strip of rubber, or some such. This is only visible once the balancer is
removed, from the backside.
Get yourself a piston stop ( one can be made from an old spark plug and a
bolt, bust out the porcelain from the old plug, tap the metal part to
receive a bolt than can thread in and out of it.) Then put the engine on #1
TDC going by the mark on the balancer and remove #1 cylinder spark plug and
insert the tool. Thread the bolt to where it barely touches the top of the
piston. Place a socket on the crank pulley and slowly rotate it one way and
the other ( will be easier if you have removed ALL the plugs ! ) . By
playing with the piston stop, you should be able to find TRUE TDC - the
point at which the piston is at the very top, right between where it stops
going up and starts coming down - and veryfy the accuracy of the mark on the
balancer. TDC, of course, should correspond on the mark on the balancer.
betcha it doesn't .
I have some balancers that are off by 5 degrees, some by ten degrees, some
by fifteen, some by more ! I recently had an engine on a stand and decided
to "test" all my balancers, so I put the engine at true TDC and then
test-fitted one balancer after another. For each one good one, I had four
bad ones !
If balancer is "off" , then you should time the car by ear only... and
probably have the balancer rebuilt or replaced. There's always a risk that
the outer ring will separate from the inner one, I have heard of this
happening to several of our members .
300'ly
John
To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:52:18 -0500
From: Chris Davis <pngkid@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Alternator bracket for C
We are switching the C to an alternator. Anyone have a suggestion as to what altinaltor
bracket will fit the 300C without clearance problems?
thanks,
chris davis
300L and working on 300C
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:0:54 -0700
From: " Jim McMullan" <macthehammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: FW: RE: sluggish engine (392): it's all over now !
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim
McMullan
To: Philippe COURANT
Sent: 9/17/2001 9:53:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] sluggish engine
(392): it's all over now !
Hi Philippe. Try this. Ground every other spark plug in the firing order.
Start the engine on 4 cylinders. Advance the distributor until engine
quits. Mark a line across the base of the distributor and the engine block.
Retard and restart .Then retard until engine stalls and mark the engine
block from the same line you used the first time .Set the distributor Half way
between the 2 marks on the block.Lock it down.Reconect the spark plugs. You have
just tuned the engine to your Altitude and the octane of your fuel.With some
practice you will be able to do this with the engine running on all 8
cylinders.Jim
From: Philippe
COURANT
To: Chrysler 300 Yahoo List Server ;Fwdlk ;IML
Imperial Mailing List
Sent: 9/16/2001 4:49:09 PM
Subject: [Chrysler300] sluggish engine
(392): it's all over now !
It's all over now (Hugh: Rolling Stones ..) !
Remember that i had a sluggish 392. Now it's a wild hemi ! A
friend came at home this afternoon and he wants to try the car
(it's a mechanic). He tests the car like Schumacher on Monza
tracks and he found quicky that ther's something wrong. As he
pushed the gas pedal to the floor (i'm a little shy to do like
him) , we heard some detonations from exhaust (or air filter). He
told me " this engine isn't well tuned, let us see ignition
timing". At my home i explain him how i tuned the ignition but he
found immediatly that i was wrong. 3 weeks ago, I used a
dephasing timing light and i didn't use it well: i put 6° retard
from my well tuned engine ! So i ran 0° advance (that explains
poor performances and overheating in costs) !!!
As we hadn't the timing light we adjust with our ears. Another
test ! Waow ! Spinning wheel at rears, people looked at us,
all
french, japanese, italian etc.. cars are behind... No overheating
now.
We haven't test top speed but i think we drove at 80 -
85 mph
with a lot of "play" under the gas pedal..
Vive le Hemi !
--
Philippe COURANT (Pau, France)
Imperial 57 Crown convertible
Buick 58 Roadmaster sedan
- American Car Club de France (ACCF) : http://www.accf.com
- Chrysler Imperial France : http://www.ifrance.com/c-i-f
- Cadillac " Standard of Excellence " :
http://www.ifrance.com/accf-cad
- SportsCars : http://www.ifrance.com/accf-sprtcar
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:27:05 -0500
From: hurst300@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
KISS...
You just have to know if the mark seems to be right.
Pull a plug, bring the mark up to 0°, stick a wire or long screwdriver
in the plug hole and use a breaker bar (not a ratchet) and turn the
crank a little each way. the wire or screwdriver should not go any
higher then it was on 0°. Either way you rotate it, the wire should go
down into the cylinder. If it dosen't, the true 0° mark is where the
highest (farthest out of the plug hole) point is reached.
See ya at the meet, Ray Jones
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 12:46:48 -0700
From: "ron waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: RE: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
I've also heard of a device that whistles when you hit TDC.
It used in place of the spark plug in the first cyl.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:49:42 EDT
From: GUINEE300F@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Thank You!
It came really from the bottom of our hearts.
You may have seen in your TV news the worldwide reactions and the great
emotions.
On friday, day of sorrow, in West Europe, in east countries, everywhere,
people stood silent for minutes. It was staggering
In France, in most major cities too. At noon buses, subways stopped. Local
and national radios stayed silent.
In Normandy, where more than anywhere else we know what we owe to the
american nation, people gathered in the WWII GI cemeteries.
People wrote emails to be sent to american people. I need to express to you
club members what I feel. Some may say the list server is not for this
purpose but I think they will understand.
I work myself in a marine state establishment. My office is just near the
entrance where waves a big french flag. For that day, I brought my big
american flag and put it at the window the whole day. I was proud as never
looking at it. Many said on this bloody tuesday "we are all american", Yes,
that's it, I am an american !
I am thinking about all these people. I would like to be strong however but
it is so hard ! I am demoralized. I already miss the towers too.
Take good care of you all. God bless America
Gilles (FRANCE)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 13:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Mikonis <r41hp@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fall Meet - banquet
Dear friends,
We look forward to seeing many of you in Louisville.
The banquet is going to be a Hawaiian theme, and my
wife Carole collects vintage Hawaiian and tiki stuff.
She is planning to bring along a few extra Hawaiian
dresses for anyone who may not have one in their
wardrobe (ladies only, please.) They run from size 10
to 16 are in excellent condition and will be clean and
ready to wear, first come first serve.
Andy
__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:51:34 EDT
From: BKWare@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: sluggish engine (392): it's all over now !
Phillipe Makes a good point about the relationship between heat and retarded
timing. I picked up an old Poly 318 truck real cheap because it was
overheating and the guy had even cracked the exhaust manifold. After I got
it home I didn't like the way it idled and was playing with the carb when I
decided to move to the distributor. It was way off and the guy had run it
like that for a long time, eventually destroying the exhaust manifolds. What
I thought would be a junk motor was simply ignition timing. This old 318
runs great now. My 354 has also showed temperature change with timing
changes of less than 4 degrees. I know its not OEM but those electronic
conversions from MPP do make the old ones run better.
Brian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 17:50:11 EDT
From: RONVE@xxxxxxx
Subject: Europeans
To:
All from across the pond that offered up condolences and kind words relative
to last Tuesday's events ...
That's exactly why we love you Europeans !!
Thank You!!
Ron...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:12:48 -0400
From: "Keith Langendorfer" <langendorfer@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 300F for Sale
Friends:
Due to a personal situation, I will be advertising my black 300F coupe in
the next issue of Hemmings, which will be sent to subscribers the end of the
week. If you are interested in a very nice "restified" car, this may be of
interest. It has the original (block/heads/carbs/exhaust
manifolds/distributor) 413 installed and had 82K miles before the
restoration. Condition-wise, it qualifies as a very strong "Number Two" ,
and drivability and performance are outstanding. The subtle upgrades are
numerous and do not detract from the value of the vehicle. In any case, the
original parts (primarily transmission and underpinnings) are included with
the car, as well as a full set of owner's, owner's supplement, shop
&chassis/body manuals, and dealer's brochure. Everything is new or rebuilt,
both mechanically and cosmetically.
Please respond in private if interested or pass this on to a friend if you
think of someone appreciative of something like this. I have a full set of
photos that can be e-mailed or a set that can be sent via US Mail to a
seriously interested individual.
It is a special car. The price is $25,900.
Thanks to all,
Keith
Massachusetts
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:22:56 -0500
From: "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 16K C Cv in Hemmings
Just curious if anyone has inquired about the C convert advertised in
Hemmings this month as having 16,XXX miles.
If so, did someone find out the VIN and the asking price?
I ask these things here because I've seen so many times where multiple
inquiries from the curious (such as me!) just firms up or drives up the
price for someone who is seriously interested in purchasing.
Or does one of our own club members own this car?
Wayne
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:35:29 -0500
From: "L. Andrew Jugle" <lajugle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Pinging & Timing and balancer problems
Ring-a-ding-ding!!! Damper Dudes on the net. Been there, done that. Other way to find
TDC is vacuum gauge and rotate distributer at idle, zeroing in to maximaize vacuum by
going from one extreme to other. That was in my old Barracuda manual. Remember the vacuum
"fairy light" for ultimate gas mileage?? Chrysler had some great thinking in the first
energy crisis. (1960's!) L.A. Jugle, Elmhurst,IL.
John Hertog wrote:
> Hi Jennie,
>
> Assuming all is working as it should, distributor advance, etc, one good
> possibility is that you are timing the engine, using the TDC reference mark
> on the harmonic balancer, and that the outer ring of the harmonic balancer
> has slipped . I find this to be a common occurence these days, with more
> balancers being "bad" than good !
> I have a PILE of bad balancers from various 413 - 440 Mopars . Do not assume
> that the TDC mark on the balancer is where it should be !
>
> The balancer is comprised of two " rings" held together by a vulcanised
> strip of rubber, or some such. This is only visible once the balancer is
> removed, from the backside.
>
> Get yourself a piston stop ( one can be made from an old spark plug and a
> bolt, bust out the porcelain from the old plug, tap the metal part to
> receive a bolt than can thread in and out of it.) Then put the engine on #1
> TDC going by the mark on the balancer and remove #1 cylinder spark plug and
> insert the tool. Thread the bolt to where it barely touches the top of the
> piston. Place a socket on the crank pulley and slowly rotate it one way and
> the other ( will be easier if you have removed ALL the plugs ! ) . By
> playing with the piston stop, you should be able to find TRUE TDC - the
> point at which the piston is at the very top, right between where it stops
> going up and starts coming down - and veryfy the accuracy of the mark on the
> balancer. TDC, of course, should correspond on the mark on the balancer.
> betcha it doesn't .
>
> I have some balancers that are off by 5 degrees, some by ten degrees, some
> by fifteen, some by more ! I recently had an engine on a stand and decided
> to "test" all my balancers, so I put the engine at true TDC and then
> test-fitted one balancer after another. For each one good one, I had four
> bad ones !
>
> If balancer is "off" , then you should time the car by ear only... and
> probably have the balancer rebuilt or replaced. There's always a risk that
> the outer ring will separate from the inner one, I have heard of this
> happening to several of our members .
>
> 300'ly
>
> John
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:15:41 -0400
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Hertog away
Hi to all,
Leaving now for the Chrysler 300 Club fall meet in Kentucky. I'll be back
home Monday 9/24 . During that period of time, PLEASE don't send me
unnecessary e-mails, jokes, patriotic stuff, personal stuff, etc. . I know
my server will be overwhelmed and my mailbox full by the time I return
anyway...
I am broadcasting this thru the Club's listserver as well , since I get so
many personal e-mails from club members... appreciate all your help in this
matter !
Anyone wanting to reach me can use my cell phone # : (516) 551-6222 . It
will be on during my trip. Please don't reply to this e-mail, and...see ya
in a week !
John
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 00:07:07 -0400
From: "Dean Mullinax" <55des4me@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Thank You!
Gilles,
Your words speak so kindly and help to warm and heal wounded hearts. To
know that the people of France, Europe, and around the world are mourning
these tragic events makes us Americans realize that this Earth is a small
one indeed. This type of terror strikes at home for all people. I believe
over 60 countries lost citizens that day, and I, for one, mourn for all of
them.
Thanks for your kind thoughts and to everyone from other nations who have
replied on this listserver.
Be careful out there, it can be a rough world sometimes....
300'ly
Dean Mullinax
----- Original Message -----
From: <GUINEE300F@xxxxxxx>
To: <nterry2@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Thank You!
> It came really from the bottom of our hearts.
>
> You may have seen in your TV news the worldwide reactions and the great
> emotions.
> On friday, day of sorrow, in West Europe, in east countries, everywhere,
> people stood silent for minutes. It was staggering
> In France, in most major cities too. At noon buses, subways stopped. Local
> and national radios stayed silent.
> In Normandy, where more than anywhere else we know what we owe to the
> american nation, people gathered in the WWII GI cemeteries.
> People wrote emails to be sent to american people. I need to express to
you
> club members what I feel. Some may say the list server is not for this
> purpose but I think they will understand.
> I work myself in a marine state establishment. My office is just near the
> entrance where waves a big french flag. For that day, I brought my big
> american flag and put it at the window the whole day. I was proud as never
> looking at it. Many said on this bloody tuesday "we are all american",
Yes,
> that's it, I am an american !
>
> I am thinking about all these people. I would like to be strong however
but
> it is so hard ! I am demoralized. I already miss the towers too.
>
> Take good care of you all. God bless America
>
> Gilles (FRANCE)
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
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