RE: {Chrysler 300} power front windows , C , D , maybe E?

["Henry Schleimer" <henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Agree that the new fuzzy material (Gary Goers) is too tight. Use silicone spray to help,  Also suspect door sealing rubber is too thick/stiff.

However, John has revived all the nightmares I had with my C driver's door.  I could write twice as much as John did but I won't bore everyone because it seems to be an inherent problem.  Bottom line is the 57 door is built wrong, twisted.

My car had old crash damage on the passenger side and the door had been replaced, likely a 58 due to the 58 spares I got with the car.  It adjusted fine.  Driver's (undamaged) side IMPOSSIBLE to get right.  Had to decide if I wanted the windows to be airtight and have the rear bottom corner of the door stick out or vice versa.  Can't have both!

A few tips from my experience that I can remember.  Make top of vent frame as far forward and in as possible, even if it looks a bit wrong.  Mine touches the screw holding the A pillar trim. Play with door striker to bring door in/out to suit the glass fit rather than door fit.  I had to cut some of the bottom of the rear run channel off to allow it to kick outwards more, to angle the top of the window in further. (Door is twisted!).

People will say my painter hung the door wrong or hinges sloppy.  Not true.  To fix the bottom corner, the top front would be too far out and fender/hood gaps would be all wrong - plus window fit would be worse.

As John says, FSM is completely useless for 2 door.  But need to get rear glass right first and start from there.  Upper stop and bottom in/out critical otherwise you will be chasing your tail.

Would be interesting to know if this was a random manufacturing problem for 57 or they fixed it at a point in production.  My VIN is 2011.  Maybe 58 rear run channel is modified??

After reviving this nightmare, as we say in Australia, I'll have to take a Bex and lie down!.  John, you can email me directly if you want to discuss more.

Henry

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Ron Waters' via Chrysler 300 Club International [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2024 8:57 AM
To: 'chrysler 300 club'
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} power front windows , C , D , maybe E?

John -

Have you considered that it could be binding on the channel fuzzy material ? Here's what I discovered: All the repro channel fuzzies are garbage. It's just too tight a fit. The fuzzies are glued inside a metal U-shaped channel. I removed and discarded that U-channel from the vent window frame and the guide on the inside of the door near the exterior handle. I replaced it with the fuzzy material from a package of 1" Velcro. I bought a long roll on ebay. My power windows on the convertible now go up and down without any binding.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2024 6:33 PM
To: chrysler 300 club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: {Chrysler 300} power front windows , C , D , maybe E?

Hi all
Maybe others have been down this road, I have lots of road ( time !!) into trying to understand this hassle already — but to cut right to where we are after all that ( beyond frustrated) , the drivers side widow seems to mechanically jam or fit very tight near top half of travel  ; 

Have see slow up motion on other 57-58 but sort of live with it . 

The FSM shows you rear door of a 4 door , that’s all . Nice , zero relevance 

the front window run channel location , which is a part of the vent window assembly —  ( location in a front to back of car sense )  — is set , by design  I think , to fit the windshield post contour via vent window frame etc , 

and therefore where it goes front to back has little or no  leeway . Note how this issue has zero commonality with the 4 four sedan window they do  show you 

adjustments on the vent side window slot or guide , although slotted , are for in and out primarily , and i believe now the front slotted mount points are to adapt to the crummy body tolerance / fits these 57 mopar cars were known for- specifically  the fit to the front window post . It is Not a window  gap adjustment the long way  despite any long slots ,,as that will  move vent . So  front to back of the front channel in door is absolutely set by where vent frame meets front window . And a bolt goes in near hinge pulling it tight that way to front panel of door metal 

 It is a convert , that adds a lot to
 all the fun , but here is the issue : 

The rear vertical guide  at door  handle is all the way back in its adjustment slot , no more to go , yet window is jammed along its  front to back dimension  between the guides near top of travel , from mid point  on up . You might just say , well lengthen adjusting slot to rear , but top of the guide is already  touching door lock side sheet metal , right below  painted “ tab “of door metal ,at rear of window slot =  no go . Hitting already  — 

bottom slot is also all the way back , but that could be slotted more . , if you do , it pivots around top adjustment , actually tightening the top half of fit longwise , making it worse 

This is an old trouble—  as bottom of U at top of guide looks beat up 

The design is a little weird as the front vent guide slot positions the window angle  in and out , the rear guide of metal window frame tab in the guide helps , follows front angle , adjusts in and out , but window itself has only a tab a few inches long at bottom that stays in the rear guide , not the whole top / rear of window that you might expect at first 

so
fit is ok when window is down , Amp  draw is ok at bottom as it starts  up , about 12 amps 

if you look down into door with window down the guide (at top ) is not touching the tab or the window — an  inch or so away to rear till window is all  the way up . At first you think rear guide is bent to rear at top or something but it works as described .
windows sort of goes toward back of car to seal against quarter window as it comes up , why that gap is there at top of guide when down 

The result is a bind at top — as window rises , it often slows down a lot , as the long axis  gap  front to back gets tighter .

 I have seen this on many CD , windows slow down drastically at they travel last  few inches up .. Why all  this detail ??? 

there is a widespread problem here .

So I made a 50 amp ammeter with shunt , — a good working power window ( the rears  in this car ) take 10-12 amps up or down with some minor variation ,fairly fast too You can see it is not binding up to any degree . 

 this front starts at that same 10-12A (  normal I think) but as it tightens near top it hits 20 A gets very unhappy  You wonder of it’s going to make it .You   can help it by hand and it gets up there, but circuit breaker in motor opens at 20 A or so in about 5? seconds . So this whole thing is very unhappy , as torque a motor makes is linearly proportional to amps , force to move window up or down near top has doubled nearing top  

 To twice the design load imho . This can confuse you into thinking motor or lift is weak/ no good . The breaker may open / reset giving a jittering pulsing move , looks like a bad motor  NO — it is poor fit of this part , causing overload — I think compounded by new run channels that may have thicker felting  in bottom of U (??) Some old U I have still on stock vent windows seem to have no felt in lower part of front guide ? is that right ? but that is not the problem here . Problem is at top half of travel 

So at this point i think the fix is lengthen top adjustment slots of rear guide another 3/16” or 1/4” , to free up travel when up , but to allow that you would have to grind top of guide or shorten it to get it to tuck back under painted tab .Obviously don’t want to shorten painted tab — that shows and is finish painted , but if in process of  restoration i would cut that back some — maybe 1/4” . 


We did grind top
of guide , but then window will hit edge of painted tab that covers bottom of U if all this had fit right . I have one car ( the one Gregg Leggatt restored , a regal lancer ) whee the power window zooms up and down fast and free . Not sure what he did , or it was just ok . Point is it works great if this fit was not bothering it . 

Slightly drastic move on a gorgeous car , even to grind guide — but many of them do exactly this , and such overloads will burn out motor , strip worm gear etc And wear out lift rollers etc . I think it should move totally freely at all times in tracks and draw 10 to 14 amps at all times . No real reason —  except bind , it should slow down . So , fix bind !!! But how ????

Stalled is about 22-25 A , and breaker in motor opens around 18-20 . Good stuff to know as is if your draw is 12 A that is a great setup working right . 
If yours  draws 20 and slows , nothing is wrong with motor ( but soon will be) it is dragging mechanically ..  

Thoughts / comments welcome , 

and no , the door did not shrink 1/4 “ ( not laughing) 

but i have shrunk more than that , this contributed to it thank you John G 

--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/E6A359DB-A830-42E3-82E3-7D6E52CC5DA2%40gradyresearch.com.

-- 
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/001101db030b%2489c19390%249d44bab0%24%40comcast.net.

-- 
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/66dfa736.050a0220.2d6aff.77e3SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN%40gmr-mx.google.com.