RE: [Chrysler300] Sticker Shock

[christopher beilby <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I have said enough on the Koni subject already, but the reason I went into some/much detail was to set out what my experiences of Konis were. When they were fitted to my mum's tank Ranchwaggon, it was mainly to get a shock that would not fall to bits. I was a 'know nothing' just licensed young leadfoot kid, and it stunned (ignorant)me how just Konis made an otherwise ordinary highway car into a real pleasure at high speed so safe car. The unezxpected bonus/win.
 
But the two other most relevant things re our 300s, is that that model Ford has a small front shock that is limited diameter wise by the bottom wishbone hole - just as our 300 front shocks are limited diameter by the tube that they go into at the top. Plus in hindsight now with many more years/cars experience, both that Ford and our 300s are those odd cars that maybe benefit most from good/correct front shocks?!
 
And re the post below asking re Koni internals, the reason I mentioned doing 180K miles at often most extreme near Rally conditions, is they did not fail, did not wear.
 
And finally two fast final points -
(1)  if the correct Konis can be found, you need not drive fast to see huge wins, win way better 300 enjoyment. Just driving suburban streets at 20-30 mph, a car can be transformed with Konis - going thru storm drain dips, over wavy side steets, round roundabouts, etc, etc.
 
Nothing against KYBS, but Konis on the 1st Ford I mentioned, stopped bottoming out, that scary/unsafe big bounce on first upward impact - they were so good, they eventually broke out the bolt hole areas wishbone mounts and they were easily fixed, re-enforced, with 1/4 inch thich steel welded in instead, and even then the Konis never failed. KYBS on my 300C lack the control that Konis give - and this is in everyday City driving on 2nd rate good streets.
(And our 300s need not worry about lower mount point failing - they bolt up to the wishbone arm in a way way stronger way.) 
(2) How much does the average 300 owe a 300 owner by the time the car driving/useable !!??
If a pair of front Konis even costs say $400, I say on my experiences, I know/say it will be the best $400 extra spent on a 300 - BUT THAT IS ONLY IF YOU ENJOY DRIVING A 300 - IF IT A TRAILER QUEEN, do not bother.  There are some cars Konis may not be worth changing shocks, but 300s of torsion bar front ends I say are one for sure. And the ride will not be harsh - Koni seem to know how to get firm controlled enjoyable comfort without the harshness, that say me putting a 'non Koni stiffer performance shock' in my '78 TBirds likely would give - these Birds seem to suffer from ' urban street pothole radial harshness' with non Koni stiff shocks?.
 
So there it is, Koni oil shocks deliver what I think gas/other cannot, and they will last no matter what the internals they use, that is likely why they still used today on world's best/fastest marques? 
Christopher
 



To: spiers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mmoore8425@xxxxxxx
CC: thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx; alumcantandthd@xxxxxxx; l-forwardlook@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 63-64chryslers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: c300@xxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:10:32 -0700
Subject: [Chrysler300] Sticker Shock


  



While no one person can speak for a large group, I believe it is fair to say that at least 10% of the 1,000+ members of the two Chrysler 300 clubs would be ?interested? in superbly-performing shocks at premium price for our 2,000+ Chrysler 300?s-1955-1965. I would further speculate that few of us would be buyers if the price were $200+/shock.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone that knows anything about the internals of a Koni shock as compared to a parts-store standard shock. There?s only so much technology one can cram into a shock tube.

Rich Barber

Member: Chrysler 300 Club, Inc., Chrysler 300 Club International, Inc. & WPC Club

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 9:34 AM
To: Michael Moore
Cc: christopher beilby; alumcantandthd@xxxxxxx; l-forwardlook@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 63-64chryslers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] [Chrysler300] Shocks - Koni

I sure can ask now!

Preferably, I'd rather wait and see if there's some more interest here - and I 
repeat - to anyone who is on the 59SportFury.net board - the Imperial Club - or 
the WPC Club - or any related organization, to see how much interest we can pick 
up. I'd rather approach Koni with "all guns blazing" with a significant 
interest, rather than going off half-cocked. Help, please!

At least then, we could see at what price point Koni would be.

John

________________________________
From: Michael Moore <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx <mailto:mmoore8425%40aol.com> >
To: John <spiers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:spiers%40rocketmail.com> >
Cc: christopher beilby <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:thelastbestgenius%40hotmail.com> >; alumcantandthd@xxxxxxx <mailto:alumcantandthd%40aol.com> ; 
l-forwardlook@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:l-forwardlook%40lists.psu.edu> ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ; 
63-64chryslers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:63-64chryslers%40yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Tue, July 26, 2011 12:13:29 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] [Chrysler300] Shocks - Koni

Hmm. 
John,
Do you think its unreasonable to say something to them like like:

"It's a little difficult to measure the interest in something people don't know 
the cost of. Could you give me a budgetary price for x pieces (25 sets?) of 
front shocks for these cars? Some people may be willing to buy multiple sets to 
make up the volume, but they need to know about a range of how much they cost".
I certainly understand not wanting to exercise Koni, but its a chicken and egg 
sort of thing. If the price of 50 sets was low, you'd sell out immediately. If 
too high---well, we'd know that too pretty soon.

Mike Moore

. 

On Jul 26, 2011, at 8:12 AM, John wrote:

There is no price. I wouldn't even ask unless we had enough interest.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Michael Moore <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx <mailto:mmoore8425%40aol.com> >
>To: christopher beilby <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:thelastbestgenius%40hotmail.com> >
>Cc: spiers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:spiers%40rocketmail.com> ; alumcantandthd@xxxxxxx <mailto:alumcantandthd%40aol.com> ; l-forwardlook@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:l-forwardlook%40lists.psu.edu> ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ; 63-64chryslers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:63-64chryslers%40yahoogroups.com> 
>
>Sent: Tue, July 26, 2011 11:07:24 AM
>Subject: Re: [FWDLK] [Chrysler300] Shocks - Koni
>
>Have they said what the price would be in a lot of 50 pieces?
>Mike Moore
>300H
>
>On Jul 26, 2011, at 7:53 AM, christopher beilby wrote:
>
>Can I suggest that for an easier start/option, that you just look at getting 
>orders for front shocks - if so I would take two sets if the price not much more 
>than a $100 a shock.
>> 
>>Konis are brilliant on the front of a car that needs good control. I have maybe 
>>3 good original 300C factory fitted shocks, they currently not on my 300Cs. I 
>>have put a pair of KYBs on my driver 300C, but they still do not feel as good as 
>>they could, nor maybe better than the original 300C front shocks that I removed.
>> 
>>My mother had new a late 50s big block Ford Ranchwagon, and we lived up bush at 
>>the time. The factory shocks lasted only around 15k miles on aussie country bush 
>>bitumen roads/tracks, this in then 70-80 mph everyday cruise speeds.
>>And the front felt just like 300Cs with KYBS - not out of control, but a bit 
>>sloppy over dips etc. I fitted Konis, and boy what a car it made of it - now 
>>cruised everywhere at 80-90 mph on good radials. And so I put them on the rear 
>>of another newer aussie Ford V8, a hotted up one that was good for 125+ mph, 
>>quarter mile in around 14 secs. And in the next few years, I did 180,000 fast 
>>miles in that car, over 120k of those I worked out recently at over 100mph 
>>cruise speeds. (A cop pulled me up once, said he had tailed me from about 1-2 
>>miles behind for last 15 miles - told me he clocked my speed never below 108mph, 
>>and up to 115mph, but after bouncing car to check shocks and seeing top quality 
>>high speed radails, said it perfectly safe, just don't do it when cops were 
>>around!!) And when I removed the shocks, they were still like new re 
>>axction/reaction, despite the steel casings near shotblasted/dinted to 
>>hell/nothing, by untold 100+mph stones/grit etc, never mind they often buried in 
>>dust/mud.
>> 
>>Owners of 300s that are trailer queens do not bother with Konis - but everyone 
>>else, if Konis can make a shock to suit our 300s, especially the needy 300 
>>front, it will put the biggest country and town smiles on our/your faces, it 
>>will make the car 30-50% more fun/safer.
>>I have Konis on my old early 70s Lamborghini, rear of my BM 6 series coupe, and 
>>recently I have discovered '77/78 TBirds - the ones with 400s and C6 autos - and 
>>all those combo ones lack to be a real fun driver's/punter car is better/right 
>>shocks, and if Koni make a not too dear one for them, at least 2 of the 4 of 
>>them will get them as I can afford. A good driver performance car can be made 
>>into a magic drivers/fun car with Konis - boring, more lackluster cars, will 
>>gain little from them though.
>> 
>>Get those 300 order numbers any way you/we can, you will not be disappointed. 
>>Hemi and crossram 300s were just made for Konis to make them even better fun. Go 
>>for Koni fronts first, this cheaper than all 4 at once, and if we can, then go 
>>for the rears as well later.
>> 
>>my two bobs worth - backed by owning/driving over 100 cars from many 
>>makers/countries - and my heavy right foot is still younger than my 
>>brain/commonsense.
>>Christopher in Australia
>> 
>>
>>
________________________________
To: mmoore8425@xxxxxxx <mailto:mmoore8425%40aol.com> 
>>CC: alumcantandthd@xxxxxxx <mailto:alumcantandthd%40aol.com> ; l-forwardlook@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:l-forwardlook%40lists.psu.edu> ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ; 63-64chryslers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:63-64chryslers%40yahoogroups.com> 
>>
>>From: spiers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:spiers%40rocketmail.com> 
>>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 07:01:30 -0700
>>Subject: Re: [FWDLK] [Chrysler300] Shocks - Koni
>>
>>
>>Hi Mike - 
>>
>>I included you and your 300Hs in the "4-1/2" count of possible buyers for 
>these 
>>Koni shocks. 
>>
>>I think there is not enough interest worldwide - so far it's me, you, another 
>>person from the 300 Club Int'l, and possibly Rick from the Forwardlook list 
>>(who 
>>didn't say how many). So, I have not asked the Koni rep anything further than 
>>the initial availability question below - right now, there is no pricing and 
>no 
>>consideration to place these back into production..
>>
>>The low interest in these shocks may just be the nature of the owner of these 
>>cars - most drivers of these cars take them out on slow Sunday drives, and 
>have 
>>had them for many years, when there were nice runners available for four 
>weeks' 
>>pay. In 2011, for many folks, paying more than a modest dinner for two out on 
>>the town for a set of four shocks is considered excessive - and is reflected 
>by 
>>the near-zero interest this is generating here.
>>
>>Myself, I get out in the cut & thrust of I-95 in South Florida and have to 
>>out-maneuver the media-estimated 30% of drivers who have NO car insurance at 
>>all. The added control afforded by the $130-$140 KYBs have saved my butt on 
>>many 
>>occasions - but there's room for improvement. I consider the KYBs good 
>>insurance, and for a one-time purchase, an excellent investment. And the car 
>is 
>>more pleasant and fun to drive - I can only imagine what the Konis would be 
>>like. I would surely never go back to the stock-type shock absorber, ever. 
>>
>>I am copying this discussion over onto the Forwardlook list, and I welcome 
>>anyone to bring it to the 1959 Plymouth list, the Christine clubs, or any 
>other 
>>related Mopar auto forum.
>>
>>John
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>John,
>>I wonder what price range they are considering. 
>>
>>I paid $800 per car set for my Jaguars (6 shocks) . 
>>They made such a terrific difference that I would be willing to buy 2 sets if 
>>necessary. If they're thinking $100 each, I wonder how it would change if we 
>>thought in terms of $200 each. 
>>
>>I would gladly pay $800 for a set of Koni shocks designed by Koni for my car.
>>I also wonder just where all the same shocks (as ours) were used originally, 
>>and hopw many of those folks we could interest.
>>Mike Moore 
>>
>>On Jul 25, 2011, at 9:13 PM, John wrote:
>>
>>> CanMan & All!
>>> 
>>> I sent the email below to see if there is any interest in Koni shocks for 
>our 
>>> 1957-1964 Mopars. 
>>> 
>>> So far, not including ole CanMan, I have heard interest in the Koni shocks 
>>> totaling four and a half car sets. Only 45.5 sets to go!! 
>>> 
>>> The Koni US factory representative said fifty CAR SETS would be the minimum 
>>> amount required to have the factory in Holland make a production run. 
>>> 
>>> Konis are an adjustable, super-premium shock at a super-premium price, used 
>>on 
>>
>>> many expensive high-speed European sports cars because of their superior 
>>>control 
>>>
>>> characteristics - a car set of four shocks for many cars often runs $600 or 
>>> more. I know it is nearly impossible to convince someone who is used to 
>>paying 
>>
>>> $15/each for shocks that one could be worth 10x the price. Heck, even the 
>>>KYBs, 
>>>
>>> which I like very much and have on a couple of my early 60s Mopars and 
other 
>>> cars, are beyond the pale for many at $30-$40 each - and they are 
well-worth 
>>>the 
>>>
>>> price in improved handling. I find it a little irritating that the KYBs are 
>>> made in the Far East, though, but they have proven to be a long-lasting, 
>>> well-made product. At least the Konis are made in Holland. 
>>> 
>>> To tell the story in more detail, I've only had Koni shocks on one car, a 
>>1962 
>>
>>> Morgan Plus/4. When I got the car in 1980, with well over 100,000 miles on 
>>it, 
>>>I 
>>>
>>> ordered Konis right away. Much to my surprise, when I cleaned off the 
>surface 
>>> rust on the old shocks, they too were Konis, with a 1964 date of manufacture 
>>>on 
>>>
>>> them! The new ones I installed hardly made a difference, and the old ones 
>>>still 
>>>
>>> had one more "click" of adjustment left on them to stiffen up the rebound 
>>> action, even being 16 years old at the time. I was impressed, and drove 
that 
>>> car 65,000 miles in my ownership, with never a concern about shocks. 
>>> 
>>> One thing that just came to mind - There are US manufacturers that are 
>making 
>>> high-performance shocks for the likes of Camaros, Mustangs, etc., - I wonder 
>>>if 
>>>
>>> any of them would take a look at a set of KYBs as an example, and come up 
>>with 
>>>a 
>>>
>>> shock for us? Maybe there's a close fit that can be adapted - I'm messing 
>>> around with a '72 Pinto wagon (who knows why?!), and installed KYBs all 
>>around 
>>>- 
>>>
>>> I had read, and since confirmed, that 1980s Camaro rear shocks fit and work 
>>>very 
>>>
>>> well on the rear of the Pinto.
>>> 
>>> Cheers.
>>> 
>>> John Spiers
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>
>>> 
>>> How many do you have signed up, to get a set?
>>> 
>>> How soon is this gonna happen?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>>> 
>>> 
>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> To continue forward with this discussion about shock absorbers at the 300 
>>Club 
>>
>>> listserver:
>>> 
>>> Koni once made front and rear shocks to fit our cars.
>>> 
>>> I recall having read a thread on the Imperial Club's website. I found it, 
>and 
>>> here it is, complete with misspellings:
>>> 
>>> Tip from Philippe:
>>> Just a little story about shock absorbers, I think that it could help you 
>and 
>>> the Imperial owners. Last year I bought a 57 wrecked Crown (no glasses, 
rust 
>>> everywhere, transmission « out »). This car was neglected since 1966 so all 
>>>the 
>>>
>>> parts on it were never replaced with aftermarket parts ! Except one thing : 
>>>the 
>>>
>>> shock absorbers! Maybe the original « Oriflow » weren't as strong as 
>Chrysler 
>>> said! I was very surprised when I removed the shocks : they aren't « made 
in 
>>> Brazil or Mexico » as actual sold by K....R or B......M. There are KONI 
>>>shocks, 
>>>
>>> a very reliable & famous make (more expensive also). But I don't know if 
>Koni 
>>> make them always. Summit has Koni shocks on his catalog. I give you the 
>>> reference (as they are the same from 57 to 65) : Front : 80 C 1229 Rear : 
82 
>>> 1066 Date of manufacturing : 11/64 If they are always manufactured, buy 
them 
>>>and 
>>>
>>> don't buy $80.00 for four : I bought 4 gaz charged absorbers (from kanter) 
: 
>>> after one year, one was leaking and one was jamed ! Mexico made ...
>>> >>Follow-up from Dietmar:
>>> >>>You are right- KONI is the worlds best qualitiy shock absorbers for 
>street 
>>>and 
>>>
>>> >>>race cars. They will serve You a 100 000 miles without any complain. I 
>use 
>>>them 
>>>
>>> >>>on my IMP 60 so this havy car dont swim nor incline in the curve, I use 
>>>KONI 
>>>an 
>>>
>>> >>>all sports car I have.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>---
>>> >>>
>>> 
>>> So I sent an email to Koni North America, inquiring about the above 
>mentioned 
>>> part numbers. Here is the reply:
>>> 
>>> From: "Mclaughlin, Paul - ITT Motion Technologies"
>>> 
>>> Haven't had those part#'s for years... I think u have to buy 50 cars sets 
>>each 
>>>
>>> to get run made in Holland.
>>> 
>>> Paul McLaughlin
>>> Koni Shock Absorbers
>>> ITT Corporation
>>> Racing Technical Sales Rep.
>>> 1961A International Way
>>> Hebron, Ky. 41048
>>> 800-922-2616 option 6
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> I checked on prices of Koni shocks. They are much more than the KYBs - for 
>>> example, on Koni's website, a pair of front shocks for a 1970 Dodge 
>>Challenger 
>>
>>> lists for $320/pair (online price, $240) and the rear pair list for $380 
>>>(online 
>>>
>>> price, $285). And they do go for upwards of $500/pair in some cases.
>>> 
>>> To make the minimum order, I think it would be difficult to convince a total 
>>>of 
>>>
>>> 50 people worldwide, between both 300 clubs, the Imperial Club, both 
>>Christine 
>>
>>> clubs, and all the members of the Forwardlook list, to drop $600 on a set 
of 
>>> Koni shocks, when there are discussions of the KYBs being far too expensive 
>>at 
>>>
>>> over $100/set . . . and I wouldn't drive another one of these cars without 
>at 
>>> least KYBs on it. The difference, to you who don't know, is like AM radio 
>>> versus satellite radio. 
>>> 
>>> I personally would buy at least 2 sets of the Konis, after experiencing the 
>>> profound difference of KYBs, and knowing the Konis are another quantum leap 
>>> forward - I've only run them 65,000 miles on one car I've owned (a '62 
>Morgan 
>>> +4) and was very impressed. One important and interesting feature of the 
>>>Konis, 
>>>
>>> is that they are adjustable for firmness/softness in their rebound action. 
>>> http://www.koni-na.com/comp.cfm
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> John Spiers
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There are some H.D. choices out there. Not many cheap one though.
>>> 
>>>http://www.amazon.com/Bilstein-Heavy-Duty-Shock-Absorber/dp/B001HIAMWU/ref=au_pf_pfg_s?ie=UTF8 <http://www.amazon.com/Bilstein-Heavy-Duty-Shock-Absorber/dp/B001HIAMWU/ref=au_pf_pfg_s?ie=UTF8&Model=300%7C2489&n=15684181&s=automotive&Make=Chrysler%7C39&Year=1970%7C1970&newCar=1&carId=001> &Model=300%7C2489&n=15684181&s=automotive&Make=Chrysler%7C39&Year=1970%7C1970&newCar=1&carId=001
>>>
>>>1
>>> 
>>> Bill Huff
>>> 
>>> At 7/21/201111:58 AM, Michael Moore wrote:
>>> >I installed those on my 300H and was grateful to get them.
>>> >I wish they were stiffer though.
>>> >Its almost as though there are no shocks on the car, but insofar as 
>>> >I know, that's all thats available.I wish Koni made a set to fit.
>>> >Mike Moore
>>> >300H
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Jul 21, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Tony Bevacqua wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > KYB shocks. KG4507 and KG 5511 are the correct ones. I just made a
>>> > > purchase for my 57 (shocks are correct for 1957 to 1964, I believe).
>>> > > $116.32 for the 4 shocks, plus handling, etc.
>>> > > Tony
>>> > >
>>> > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ] 
On
>>> > > Behalf Of Marshall Larson
>>> > > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:26 AM
>>> > > To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> 
>>> > > Subject: [Chrysler300] Shocks.
>>> > >
>>> > > Any suggestions for an appropriate brand and model of shocks for a G. I
>>> > > don't need anything exotic, just proper ride and to deal with the 
radials
>>> > > that are on the car. All suggestions appreciated.
>>> > >
>>> > > MN Marshall
>>> > >
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>=
>
>

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