Re: [Chrysler300] Carburetion Question!!! - reply

["rob kern" <robkern@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello 300'ly to all!
    The first time I witnessed gas being poured into a carb bowl to prime a 
'64 Chevy I cringed. I too have had to crank for at least 3-10 second 
segments to start my C after it has sat for greater than 24 hours. John 
Lazenby at this year's spring meet suggested I install an electric fuel pump 
as an auxiliary device to prime the carb to decrease the cranking time.  He 
sold me one for less than $40 (shipping & handling included).  We installed 
it directly in line along the frame rail forward of the passenger side rear 
wheel along with an aluminum stone guard. The pump was mounted with rubber 
washers as a vibration damper along the frame.  This was wired off the 
ignition switch with a toggle switch next to the power antenna toggle 
switch.  To start one turns the ignition to ON, flips the toggle to ON, 
waits until the clicking noise of the pump disappears (about 10 seconds), 
partly depress the accelerator to set the choke and then engage the starter. 
It starts in less than 5 seconds of cranking.  One can turn the pump off 
prior to engaging the starter or immediately after the engine has commenced 
running. I have no problem starting the car after it has been run and parked 
or if parked less than 24 hours. The added benefit is that there is a 
redundant fuel delivery system in the event that a mechanical pump failure 
occurs as long as  there is no leakage in the crankcase. John is a club 
member and extends a discount to all club members if they identify 
themselves as such at time of purchase.  Installation instructions are 
included and very simple in explanation.  ROB KERN
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Kraus300@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "John J. Hertog" <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Thomas Miller" 
<tfm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; <Chrysler300E@xxxxxxx>; <wranderson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 
<Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Carburetion Question!!! - reply


>I think its all about risk management. I drive my C a lot and under some 
>pretty tough conditions. This car would do the dry carb thing after a few 
>days and would crank endlessly. It would also vapor lock and either stall 
>in traffic and/or refuse to start after being shut down when hot. Dumping 
>fuel down the carb 15-20 times a year is eventually going to be trouble. 
>Sometimes my aim was off. There were backfires. Sometimes it would act up 
>on the road or at meets. Carrying extra fuel in the trunk for this is not 
>so smart. Twice I didn't get the hood latched right after priming and the 
>hood popped open on the road.
>
> I installed an electric pump two years ago. This small pump has been a 
> good compromise solution but...
> It has to be  the low pressure type. I think mine does 3-4 pounds of 
> pressure. More is not better.
> It needs to be installed in a protected area, not in the engine 
> compartment. My pump says no temps over 140 degrees.
> It needs to be installed on a properly fused wire.
> You need to think before you use it. I'm lucky that the C has a factory 
> rear defroster. The pump is wired to come on with the defroster's toggle 
> switch. The discipline is that the key is turned on, defroster on, count 
> to 10 and turn it off. The noise of the defroster is the reminder that the 
> pump is on.
> For any other application I like the thought of a momentary switch.
>
> I agree that the restriction of the in line electric pump could aggravate 
> a vapor lock condition in some cars. I've found that mine helps on hot 
> restarts more than it hurts.
>
> The biggest concern is a failure of the stock fuel pump. My thought is 
> that some internal failure in the stock pump could allow the electric pump 
> to push fuel into the crankcase. Switching on that electric pump could be 
> a big mistake. I carry a section of rubber fuel hose and clamps to bypass 
> the stock pump if it fails.
>
> Lets all be careful out there.
>
> Jim Krausmann
> Detroit
>
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
>
>> Warren, et al .
>>
>> The psi output of the auxiliary pump is the same as that of the stock 
>> pump -
>> about 5 psi if memory serves me right. There is no more reason for it to
>> overpower the needle and seat in the carbs than for the stock mechanical
>> pump to do so. I have used mine on a switched, ignition-on circuit, and
>> once it even got me home after the stock fuel pump failed while driving 
>> on a
>> trip. I have also inadvertently left it on at times and it has made no
>> difference at all in the car's performance, or caused any flooding of any
>> sort. This (and the flow-thru design) is why I like Mr. Lazenby's 
>> electric
>> pumps
>>
>> John Hertog
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Thomas Miller"
>> To: ; ;
>> ;
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Carburetion Question!!! - reply
>>
>>
>> > Hi Warren,
>> >
>> > Would you still take issue with this setup if a momentary contact 
>> > switch
>> > were used instead of a toggle?
>> >
>> > Just curious.
>> >
>> > Best Regards,
>> >
>> > Thomas F. Miller
>> > tfm@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> >>>> "Warren Anderson" 9/20/2005 8:08 PM >>>
>> > The only 100% for sure "cure" for this symptom
>> >> is to install an auxiliary electric pump. Properly installed at the 
>> >> rear,
>> > by
>> >> the tank, this switch-controlled unit would push fuel all the way up 
>> >> to
>> > the
>> >> front when turned on, and fill up the bowls on the carbs with fuel. 
>> >> then
>> >> start the car, turn off the electric pump, and you're done.
>> >>
>> >> My 300G is equipped with such a critter. Even after weeks of sitting,
>> >> it's
>> >> always an easy start. It sure beats cranking and cranking and cranking
>> > and
>> >> cranking to get fuel up to the carbs using the factory mechanical 
>> >> pump.
>> > So
>> >> far it's been years since I have had to replace the starter, and I
>> >> believe
>> >> this is in great part because I don't have to use it a lot, to crank 
>> >> and
>> >> crank and crank...
>> >>
>> >> John Lazenby sells a small, easy to install "straight-through" unit 
>> >> that
>> >> will allow fuel to flow through it even when turned off. E-mail him 
>> >> at:
>> >> john@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>
>> >> John Hertog
>> >> Sag Harbor NY
>> >
>> >
>> > Dangerous set up to say the least. First, idle pump DOES cause some
>> > restriction that can be just enough to aggravate marginal vapor lock
>> > condition.
>> >
>> > Single switch under dash can be (and will be eventually) left on and 
>> > pump
>> > will pump entire contents of fuel tank through needle/seat and at least
>> > cause a mess. This I have seen happen but have never seen what happens
>> > when
>> > switch is left on and carburetor floods over and a large fire starts. 
>> > This
>> > can happen very easily and is why a safety system needs to be built 
>> > into
>> > the
>> > on-off supply for the booster pump so that if the engine dies, the pump
>> > shuts off too. Good common sense approach to avoiding otherwise 
>> > inevitable
>> > disaster.
>> >
>> > Back when, heavy duty trucks with carburetors had in-tank electric fuel
>> > pumps and primer buttons on the dash. Before the engine was running,
>> > primer
>> > button allowed driver to fill (big) float bowls and then, after engine 
>> > was
>> > running, the pump was oil pressure triggered to run. Prime pump before
>> > start is definately not some new idea and is not a bad idea but needs 
>> > more
>> > than simple switch to be safe. (IMO as well as alot of other engineers)
>> >
>> > Warren Anderson
>> > Sedona,AZ
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>
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