RE: [Chrysler300] help Joe out

["John Lyons" <John@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

John,

Interesting mystery.  I love a good mystery (as long as no one is injured)!

A couple of questions and comments:

1)  You did not mention if they were power brakes specifically (Some may be
able to glean the answer from your details but I don't know enough to be
able to do that).  Are they power brakes?

2)  I struggle with the concept of a hot manifold causing the entire master
cylinder to heat up to the point of making the master cylinder scald water
off of it repeatedly....heat just can't conduct that well over such a large
area even on a hot hot summer day and without direct contact.  The only
thing I think that could cause that kind of heat would be an electrical
issue or a failure of some sort in the power brake booster.

3)  The problem corrected itself (albeit temporarily) upon replacement of
the master cylinder.  This leads me to my next question: Did the problem
correct itself prior to the master cylinder replacement?  Did he try the
system out again prior to doing that work (I would not have thought to do
this so I hope I am not offending with that last question).  Did he try to
replace the fluid prior to changing the master cylinder?  While I don't feel
this would have permanently resolved the problem, I am curious to know if it
would resolve it short-term.

4)  I had a failure recently that resulted in two of these three symptoms.
The hard pedal and the hot master cylinder.  The brake booster was the
culprit.  It heated up after losing some brake fluid.

Very interested to know what the final verdict is on this one.

Regards,

John

P.S.  Four days and counting!

-----Original Message-----
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of John J. Hertog
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:09 PM
To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Chrysler300] help Joe out


For the second time, Joe Luciano has lost his brakes - entirely - while
driving his '62 300 convertible.  This is getting both very annoying and
very dangerous. Can anyone help Joe ?  I personally have never encountered
the exact problem that he is experiencing, but perhaps one or more of you
have?

The car is a '62 300 Sport convertible; it is using the original
single-reservoir mater cylinder. Up front, the brakes have been changed to
1964/1964 Bendix-type drum brakes from a 64 300  (that should not matter) .
Other than that, everything is stock.

First time Joe lost his brakes, he was driving in heavy traffic on a hot
day, coming back from a show.  When he called me and described what happened
(pedal first got hard, then disappeared entirely, went right to the floor) ,
I (wrongly) assumed it was a bad master cylinder and told him to change it.
Which he did.

Second time: same scenario, with the new master.  After driving the car for
a few hundred miles, from NYC to Carlisle PA  and back, with no problems,
Joe once again hit traffic, on a hot afternoon. After crawling along for
awhile, the pedal started to feel "funny"  and then, boom, no more brakes at
all.

This time, however, Joe opened the hood, and noticed that the master
cylinder "looked" hot.  So he threw some water on it, and the water sizzled
off the master cylinder like it was an exhaust manifold.  And again and
again, just kept sizzling.

So - I now assume (?) that the master cylinder is getting so hot that the
brake fluid starts to boil, and that is what is causing brake failure.
However - what I don't understand is, why is the master getting so hot?  I
mean, it's hot under the hood, but not THAT hot, and the engine is not
overheating, so why is his master cylinder getting so hot that it percolates
the brake fluid?   Been driving these cars for years, never seen that one
yet.  Anyone else?

Looking forward to your repsonses,

John Hertog
Sag Harbor NY







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