RE: [Chrysler300] Fluid Drive

["Albert Vannice" <mavche@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

     My comments were to apply only to the identification of the type of brake fluid in the brake lines.

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Rich Barber 
	Sent: Sat 5/28/2005 1:05 PM 
	To: Charlie Valentine 
	Cc: Warren Anderson; L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mjraguse@xxxxxxx; Albert Vannice 
	Subject: [Chrysler300] Fluid Drive
	
	

	Professor Vannice might be able to speak to this subject from a better
	chemical engineering perspective, but fluids will mix and travel
	throughout a brake system better than one might think.  Witness the
	corrosion in wheel cylinders with the only source of the necessary
	water/moisture/oxygen coming from the exposed brake fluid surface in the
	master cylinder reservoir.  Moisture and oxygen from the atmosphere
	enters the brake fluid at this surface, travels throughout the brake
	system and provides the necessary electrolyte and oxidizer for
	corrosion.  Glycols preferentially absorb moisture and this is probably
	one of the reasons for going to a silicone-based hydraulic fluid.
	
	The bleed valves at each wheel cylinder are positioned at the top inlet
	of the wheel cylinder to effectively remove air bubbles, but cannot be
	expected to provide a thorough flush of the liquid in the wheel
	cylinder.. Whatever liquid is in the wheel cylinder will pretty much
	stay there, even if the lines going to the cylinder are flushed with
	air, alcohol, new brake fluid, or whatever.  Flushing the system does
	clear out the master cylinder and brake lines and this is a good thing
	to do periodically.
	
	If one is concerned over the liquid in the wheel cylinders, disassembly,
	draining, cleaning and reassembly with new "kits" is probably in order. 
	I have seldom seen anything good inside of old wheel cylinders.  The
	brake fluid tends to be red with rust from the system.  Fortunately, the
	pistons and sealing cups tolerate this gunk pretty well, otherwise, more
	of us would be in deep doo-doo more often due to failing/leaking wheel
	cylinders.  If there is any possibility of the hydraulic fluid turning
	into foam, gel, emulsion or gunk, I'd think it would be time to
	completely flush the system, including the wheel cylinders.  The problem
	might become even worse at high or low temperature extremes.
	
	In order to keep you and your Chrysler 300's intact, care and cleaning
	of your brake systems is highly recommended.
	
	C-300'ly
	Rich Barber
	Brentwood, CA
	1955 C-300
	
	Charlie Valentine wrote:
	
	>Just an idea !!!!    If you disconnected the brake line at the master
	>cylinder and at each wheel cylinder and used compressed air to blow the
	>lines clean first, then the lines are pretty clean and you are flushing them
	>minimally and the new fluid is mainly flushing the wheel cylinders. Also
	>when you disconnect the line from the M.C. would most of that fluid drain
	>out on its own?
	>My thinking is if the master cylinder and brake lines and hoses are 90%
	>clean from the compressed air, the new fluid will have minimal "old stuff"
	>to mix with and you just might get a cleaner flush.
	>
	>Any thoughts, comments and advice, be they good or bad, on my terrific idea
	>would be greatly appreciated.
	>Bye for now and have a wonderful holiday weekend.
	>
	>Charlie Valentine
	>300G, 62 300 Sport Convertible
	>
	>----- Original Message -----
	>From: "Warren Anderson" <wranderson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	>To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
	><mjraguse@xxxxxxx>
	>Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 12:39 AM
	>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Dot 4 mixed with Dot 5 Silicone
	>
	>
	> 
	>
	>>
	>>   
	>>
	>>>I have just discovered that one of my cars which I thought had Dot 3 or 4
	>>>actually has silicone and last month I topped off the master cylinder
	>>>with
	>>>     
	>>>
	>>Dot 4.
	>>   
	>>
	>>> I am sure I am not the first to do that so what is the prognosis? I can
	>>>syphon off what is in the master cylinder but by now all sorts of mixing
	>>>     
	>>>
	>>action
	>>   
	>>
	>>>has occurred.
	>>>
	>>>Marv
	>>>     
	>>>
	>>Answers to your questions are available from many good sources. I would
	>>suggest a Google search.
	>>
	>>Personally, I like and have systems with DOT 5 fluid in them. Does what I
	>>want; fluid stays clear and does not attract moisture like DOT 3, 4 do.
	>>
	>>I understood a long time ago that adding DOT3, 4 to a DOT5 system derates
	>>the DOT5 fluid but is 'compatible'. But the mixture of DOT3,4 and 5 is not
	>>desirable at all and can lead to a system with  strange looking gunk in
	>>it.
	>>
	>>If I had a system with DOT5 that had to be topped off with DOT3,4, in an
	>>emergency, I would draw out all fluid from the master cylinder as soon as
	>>possible and flush and refill the system with straight DOT5 fluid. Brake
	>>fluid only is best to flush the system with and definately not alcohol
	>>(from
	>>my manuals anyway). Some hydraulic parts were never designed to work with
	>>alcohol (and NO brake part will live when contaminated with anything
	>>petroleum based).
	>>
	>>Warren Anderson
	>>Sedona,AZ
	>>   
	>>
	> 
	>
	
	
	
	
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